Aussie v NZ

[arthwollipot]

Makes sense to you to ban all fossil fuel development and eventually all exports of same? Illuminate me. How the hell is that not going to turn this Country into Venezuela??

Not going to respond to the whole rant obviously, but the answer to this question is that it would be done - and in fact is being done - gradually. Fossil fuel development no longer makes sense either in terms of the environment or economically. It's a waste of time and money. Phase it out, but in such a way that the many people the industry currently employs are taken care of.

If BP and Shell and Exxon had any sense, they would have forked hard into renewables long ago.

A diehard city greenie and an equally diehard country national will rarely see eye to eye, but I don't see why politics should get in the way of anything.

[Di Wundrin]

Oh hell no, I just enjoy verbal jousting really, I've been on forums for over a decade with 'disagreeable people', that's the fun of them, and the trick of it, to argue points for the sheer fun of it, although I do have some nagging worries about the speed of this 'shutting everything down' with no backups in place to take the load. That just doesn't make sense to me at all. And it entails more than just politics, that stuff is going to have real impact on real lives. Sometimes I wonder if people realise that when they get to the ballot box. Elections aren't just about politics, vibes, and feelz, they're about 'shit getting real' too.

And we'll never agree on the "risk to the planet" that coal poses. To me the risk of starving in an impoverished country that got that way because it refused to export coal to countries who need it is a far greater risk than waiting for the temperature to cook me or the oceans to rise enough to drown me. Just saying, it's a matter balancing the factors... common sense should never be replaced by ideological wishful / or alarmist, thinking.

[arthwollipot]

...although I do have some nagging worries about the speed of this 'shutting everything down' with no backups in place to take the load. That just doesn't make sense to me at all.

Well yeah, that's because it doesn't make sense. Nobody who knows anything about the subject thinks that coal fired power plants should be shut down before there's something else in place to take the load. The inventor of the light bulb worked by candlelight. The inventor of the motor car rode a horse to work.

What's being ignored in all the rhetoric is that renewables are already starting to take the load. Not enough, and not quickly enough, but it is happening.

And no, I have to disagree with you on one thing. Elections are all about politics, vibes and feelz. Shit getting real comes after the election.

[Di Wundrin]

Are you sure you're Greens Art? Sounding a lot saner than most of them.

I get called a climate denier because I dispute the time spans and "proofs' being headlined. I get called a Right wing Nazi because I believe people are entitled to keep what they earn including that bit extra that people are silly enough spend on stuff they don't need. I get called a Trumper for trying to point out why he won. And i get called a planet killing enviro vandal shill for the fossil fuel industry for pointing out that more people will die of cold due to lack of power than of anything the rise of a fraction of a degree C will harm.

It's the chronology that is insane. 'Pixie' Bowen ranting about his Netzero goals when it's blatantly impossible to replace fossil base load power with renewable in that time does nothing more than insult the intelligence of the populace. Who does he think he's kidding?

It's unlikely that any pensioners will freeze in their beds in a blackout in coming winters up in these latitudes, but further south a few might, and will yet he just doesn't see beyond those magic numbers, it's as though he's hypnotised. To hell with cold old people we must get our brownie point and a pat on the head from the FFs at the WEF. Doesn't make sense to me at all.

Bandt just seems to want to trash the entire Country as fast as possible but why eludes me. What did we do to him?

To a lot of people politics has been reduced to vibes and feels, they don't understand how it operates, don't bother to find out and vote to impress some other dickheads on Twitter. siiiiigh.

Shit getting real comes after the election.

Ain't that the truth!

[stanky]

my darling Di,

wow. You sure get picked on a lot. Try being a black trans-feminist dolphin. They charge me to use the pool, and they make me wear a diaper.

[stanky]

What's being ignored is use.
Energy use.
The greatest source of clean fuel, by far, is to be had in rethinking our use of it and re-fitting society to allow a new modernity.
As i've claimed for decades, we could do better on a tenth the power that we use now. But this would require some serious restructuring.
And, of course, that's where we have the collective sigh...it can't be done...people are too set in their ways to change.

That's what we're told.

We can't manage without our cars. Yet, we did without the horses to have cars and now we can get past cars to have something much better.
And somehow, it's hard to sell.
What's easy to sell is energy. They sell a lot of it. Our military uses enough for several countries. Oh, but we can't not have a military. Don't be a fool.
We aren't clever enough to solve this puzzle. That's so insane!
I think it's more that we're in a hypnotic state, resigned to stroke the addiction.

Bold talk, sure.
Here's something milder:
We could cut our energy use in half immediately, with nothing but slight behavior change. That's how wasteful we are in america. Same with food. Fat as we are, we throw 40% away. If we stopped being wasteful with food, and we ate less of it, then almost overnight the nation could run on half the food. Same with transport. Same with housing. Car pool; take a room mate. Bill cut in half; life often better. Not too radical.

With some luck, abortions will be legal again. We really should back off on the population, at least until we make the transitions. Creating infrastructure will be costly, energy wise. Same like always.
Are we doomed?
sure. But so what. Death insures that.
May as well pretend we aren't doomed and build a futuristic world. One that is mostly wild.

[Admin]

Car pool; take a room mate.

Lots of people have tried to get carpooling to take off. It's so logical, and saves people money. You can cut your travel costs by 2/3, piece of cake.

Which is why everyone now carpools.

[stanky]

not here. not much anyway. americans gotta have their car time. that's where they sing and play music their spouse hates. We're an uptight breed, white americans. You don't hear people singing in america like you would in rural Africa. Some dudes don't have the balls to sing in their own shower, much less trucking down the street. You could get harassed by cops or mental health personnel if you burst into song at a gas station in Iowa, even if you're a damn good singer. So they do it in their cars.and they can't share. Some guys no doubt rub one out on the way to the job and they're too shy to do it with another person that close.

[Di Wundrin]

my darling Di,

wow. You sure get picked on a lot. Try being a black trans-feminist dolphin. They charge me to use the pool, and they make me wear a diaper.

Well stop crapping in their pool.

I don't mind being picked on, its par for the course when you have to rile people up to find out what they really think Just pointing out the behaviour patterns lately, you've noticed it, doesn't matter what you are somebody's gonna hate ya.

[stanky]

dolphins lack a bladder We just drip pee as it's formed. Not sure what control we have over shitting.