A very depressing video from Gaza

[arthwollipot]

I completely agree with The Atheist on this one. The only way Hamas loses this is for Israel to kill every last Palestinian in Gaza.

So, how do they win?

That's a serious question. What constitutes "winning" for them, and how do the October 7 attacks directly or indirectly lead to a win?

I'm not sure that "winning" is relevant. I'm pretty sure that Hamas is aware that they're not going to be able to destroy the state of Israel, which is their stated goal.

[Admin]

The thing is, what's their actual cause, and do the people demonstrating in their favor understand it?

I'd put money on them 100% having no idea.

The whole thing plays into the antisemtism that's never far from the surface. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/301004 ... vandalised

[Admin]

So, how do they win?

That's a serious question. What constitutes "winning" for them, and how do the October 7 attacks directly or indirectly lead to a win?

I don't think they think that far ahead - these are identical people to ISIS, the Taliban, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram and all the other terrorist groups. They think they're doing Allah's work and will be rewarded in heaven.

That's the beauty of religious zealotry - you never need to ask if something is right or if it's a sensible long-term goal. History is littered with examples, from Hirihito's Divine Wind to the 9/11 hijackers. They just fucking do. It's times like this I was I was an atheist.

[Meadmaker]

I completely agree with The Atheist on this one. The only way Hamas loses this is for Israel to kill every last Palestinian in Gaza.

So, how do they win?

That's a serious question. What constitutes "winning" for them, and how do the October 7 attacks directly or indirectly lead to a win?

I'm not sure that "winning" is relevant. I'm pretty sure that Hamas is aware that they're not going to be able to destroy the state of Israel, which is their stated goal.

So there's only one way for Hamas to lose, but there's no way for them to win.

There's a lot more truth to that than I wish there were.

[arthwollipot]

That's actually not a bad way of putting it.

[President Bush]

I completely agree with The Atheist on this one. The only way Hamas loses this is for Israel to kill every last Palestinian in Gaza.

So, how do they win?

That's a serious question. What constitutes "winning" for them, and how do the October 7 attacks directly or indirectly lead to a win?

ask them...

Thousands have been killed in Gaza, with entire families wiped out. Israeli airstrikes have reduced Palestinian neighborhoods to expanses of rubble, while doctors treat screaming children in darkened hospitals with no anesthesia. Across the Middle East, fear has spread over the possible outbreak of a broader regional war.

But in the bloody arithmetic of Hamas’s leaders, the carnage is not the regrettable outcome of a big miscalculation. Quite the opposite, they say: It is the necessary cost of a great accomplishment — the shattering of the status quo and the opening of a new, more volatile chapter in their fight against Israel.

It was necessary to “change the entire equation and not just have a clash,” Khalil al-Hayya, a member of Hamas’s top leadership body, told The New York Times in Doha, Qatar. “We succeeded in putting the Palestinian issue back on the table, and now no one in the region is experiencing calm.”

Since the shocking Hamas attack on Oct. 7, in which Israel says about 1,400 people were killed — most of them civilians — and more than 240 others dragged back to Gaza as captives, the group’s leaders have praised the operation, with some hoping it will set off a sustained conflict that ends any pretense of coexistence among Israel, Gaza and the countries around them.

“I hope that the state of war with Israel will become permanent on all the borders, and that the Arab world will stand with us,” Taher El-Nounou, a Hamas media adviser, told The Times.

...

A key objective was to take as many Israeli soldiers captive as possible for use in a prisoner swap, according to two Arab officials whose governments talk to Hamas.

One regional security official said Hamas had expected that, once the attack began, Palestinians elsewhere would rise up against Israel, other Arab populations would explode against their governments and the group’s regional allies, including Hezbollah, would join the fight.

But at least four intelligence services — two Arab and two European — have assessed that Hezbollah had no advance knowledge of the attack, according to officials with access to intelligence reports.

Hamas’s own political leaders outside Gaza were also surprised by the assault, according to several Arab and Western officials who track their movements. They have, nonetheless, praised it for reinvigorating the armed struggle against Israel.

“Hamas’s goal is not to run Gaza and to bring it water and electricity and such,” said Mr. al-Hayya, the politburo member. “Hamas, the Qassam and the resistance woke the world up from its deep sleep and showed that this issue must remain on the table.”

“This battle was not because we wanted fuel or laborers,” he added. “It did not seek to improve the situation in Gaza. This battle is to completely overthrow the situation.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/08/worl ... a-war.html

[sparks]

About time to do away with those terrorist pests. One, perhaps two strategic nukes?

[Admin]

Already been suggested: https://www.politico.eu/article/israel- ... hamas-war/

[arthwollipot]

About time to do away with those terrorist pests. One, perhaps two strategic nukes?

Like I said, kill every single Palestinian in Gaza.

[sparks]

Over the top. Not every Palestinian is Hamas.