It doesn't help in the least.arthwollipot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:13 amHere, this might help:
There have been five Israel-Gaza wars since 2008. These charts show the latest one is by far the deadliest
War sucks. People die. This includes civilians. Men, women, children, old people, doctors, nurses, everyone in the area of a war might become "collateral damage". That is not what we mean by "atrocities" in wartime.
Atrocities occur when one side deliberately kill or harm non-combattants, not as a side-effect of an attack, but as the primary target. It gets a little difficult to judge in some cases, if you deliberately kill people who are materially supporting the enemy, or when civilians are targetted, but with a legitimate military aim. People have debated for years, and will debate for many more years, whether Dresden or Nagasaki were atrocities. On the other hand, there is no debate about Auschwitz and My Lai. Those were atrocities.
The attacks on kibbutzim and the dance party on October 7 were atrocities. The kidnap and continued holding of civilians are atrocities. Attacking the place where those fighters came from in an attempt to remove Hamas leaders from power, or in an attempt to free those still held hostage is not an atrocity, even though civilian casualties were inevitable, and more are inevitable in the future. Those things are not atrocities. They are not war crimes.
It is sometimes said that war is, by itself, an atrocity, or that "war crimes" is reduncant. However, only a fool would say that in all cases. Starting a war is a crime. Participating in one is not. This war began when Hamas sent hundreds of soldiers, if the terrorists could be dignified by that name, into Israel to murder and kidnap civilians. That was an act of war and an atrocity, and Israel is blameless for continuing that war and bringing it to the point of its origin in order to remove Hamas from power and attempt to save the lives of the hostages.
However, Israel is not blameless if they commit atrocities in the course of conducting the war. Israel's cause is just, but having a just cause does not mean that it is acceptable to commit atrocities during the conduct of a just war. If they were to deliberately kill non-combattants without a legitimate military objective, that would be an atrocity. Body count alone is not an atrocity.