A very depressing video from Gaza

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Meadmaker
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Re: A very depressing video from Gaza

Post by Meadmaker »

I just watched this video https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/1 ... -world.cnn

It's a CNN reporter embedded with IDF forces.

It's truly horrible. Mile after mile of complete destruction. And yet......they're being shot at.

The devastation is horrible. So much destruction. So many homeless. No doubt so many dead.

But still, they;re being shot at.

It's Berlin, 1945, brought into the 21st century.



But...what to do? I don't see any good options for the IDF. It's a choice among evils, and I don't know what I would say to them. To Hamas and friends, I know what I would say. Stop shooting. I don't think they'll take my advice. It doesn't seem to fit with their goals.
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Re: A very depressing video from Gaza

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Meadmaker wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 7:53 pm But...what to do? I don't see any good options for the IDF. It's a choice among evils, and I don't know what I would say to them. To Hamas and friends, I know what I would say. Stop shooting. I don't think they'll take my advice. It doesn't seem to fit with their goals.
That's the exact point for Hamas, I'm sure of that. They hope thousands more kids get killed - it's a holy war.

Israel is playing right into their hands. And remember, this all happened because Israel got complacent, just like America did on 9/11. If they'd been awake, no terrorist attack, no hostages, no problem. Instead, they've been sucked into an unwinnable war - Gaza is Israel's Afghanistan.
Meadmaker
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Re: A very depressing video from Gaza

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Admin wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:19 am
Meadmaker wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 7:53 pm But...what to do? I don't see any good options for the IDF. It's a choice among evils, and I don't know what I would say to them. To Hamas and friends, I know what I would say. Stop shooting. I don't think they'll take my advice. It doesn't seem to fit with their goals.
That's the exact point for Hamas, I'm sure of that. They hope thousands more kids get killed - it's a holy war.

Israel is playing right into their hands.
Is there any way not to?

That's what I keep looking at, and not seeing an answer. Israel could probably be a bit less destructive on the civilians and their homes, at the cost of a few more IDF lives. Worth it? Maybe.

I think leaving Hamas in place as the government of Gaza is an option that was ruled out on October 7. It's theoretically an option, but not really.

So.....what else could they do?

I don't know what resources are available to them I found myself thinking that they should move more slowly to minimize damage to homes. That would just make the campaign go slower, and it still wouldn't be safe, so the refugees would still be there, for longer than they will now. Maybe they should provide more supplies to refugee camps, and construction and engineering crews to provide those camps with water and electricy. That would alleviate some of the suffering. But does Israel have the resources to do that? They are a small country, with a huge military budget. Water and electricity for a million refugees isn't something that just happens. Moreover, some of that engineering crew would be murdered if they tried to work in the middle of a million Arabs.

What's left? What option is there other than to play into Hamas' hands by doing exactly what they are doing now?

It seems like there has to be a better way than what they are doing, but I can't figure out what it is.
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President Bush
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Re: A very depressing video from Gaza

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Stopping what they are doing would be a start.
Meadmaker
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Re: A very depressing video from Gaza

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President Bush wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:27 am Stopping what they are doing would be a start.
Think it through to the end.

Well, there is no end. Think it through to next month.

"What they are doing" is fighting a war. If they stop doing that, where they are, they keep getting shot at.
If they stop doing that and withdraw, Hamas resumes its position as the government of Gaza, and they resume their former policy, which is "From the river to the sea."

I don't see any good outcomes.
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Re: A very depressing video from Gaza

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Meadmaker wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:45 am
President Bush wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:27 am Stopping what they are doing would be a start.
Think it through to the end.

Well, there is no end. Think it through to next month.

"What they are doing" is fighting a war. If they stop doing that, where they are, they keep getting shot at.
If they stop doing that and withdraw, Hamas resumes its position as the government of Gaza, and they resume their former policy, which is "From the river to the sea."

I don't see any good outcomes.
Didn´t say I saw any good outcomes, only wanted to answer your hypothetical.

Hamas raid killed about 1200.

Israeli war so far netted about 11,200 Gaza dead.

If Netanyahu was out for a disproportional response I´d say that he´s been successful.
Meadmaker
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Re: A very depressing video from Gaza

Post by Meadmaker »

John Oliver did a very good job, as usual. (Sometimes, I think he's dead wrong about stuff, but most of the time I like him.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ9PKQbkJv8


Although, I disagree with the very end. Spoiler alert, he calls for a cease fire. The tone of it is that if there is to be any possible improvement, it has to start with a cease fire. I wish it were so simple.

I can't say he's wrong. I don't know what's wrong, or if anything's right. I will say though that I think the only way that things might improve is to get Hamas out of power in Gaza. If there's a way to do that, and also have a cease fire, I'd be all in.
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Re: A very depressing video from Gaza

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I've been pretty supportive of Israel, but then things like the raid on al-Shifa happen, and it just gets more depressing.

I have no problem with them going into al-Shifa, but in my opinion, once they're inside, they have an obligation to fix it. It's a fairly stable building. Now that they're in, they can guarantee that it is no longer being used by the terrorists so......bring in a generator. Bring in lots of fuel. Lots of food. Water. Do what you can to fix what's broken, within reason. Put a tight ring around the building so that everyone inside is as safe as they can be given what's going on around them. Make it back into a real hospital.

If they don't do that, then a pox on both their houses.
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Re: A very depressing video from Gaza

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Meadmaker wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:08 pm If they don't do that, then a pox on both their houses.
I'm betting a grand to a teaspoonful of shit they don't.
Meadmaker
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Re: A very depressing video from Gaza

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Admin wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2023 6:39 pm
Meadmaker wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:08 pm If they don't do that, then a pox on both their houses.
I'm betting a grand to a teaspoonful of shit they don't.
It appears you are very likely to win a teaspoonful of shit.

I've been looking for any news stories about what's happening at the hospital after the Israeli raid, and there seems to be no interest in such a story. They bought in enough incubators and baby food to have a photo-op of them carrying them, but beyond that there's really no coverage, which almost certainly means they haven't turned the generator back on, much less done anything else.
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