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Posted: **Sun Nov 24, 2024 12:04 am**

Good point. Thanks.

Posted: **Sun Nov 24, 2024 6:58 am**

stanky wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:25 am It's possible to question the official story of the JFK assassination, without thinking the moon landing was a hoax.
It's possible to agree with some of RFK jr's stance and not like Trump, at all. It's possible to be a fan of vaccinations while finding Pfizer to be an untrustworthy corporation.

The all or none mentality is a drag. It seeks divisiveness. It pre-judges, poorly, in needing to define and categorize quickly. It's arrogant. Ultimately, boring.

If you are informed about the JFK assassination, it is not possible to question the official story, unless you are irrational.
If you are informed about the moon landing, it is not possible to think it is a hoax, unless you are irrational.
As for RFK.....I don't even know what that fellow is up to. There's so much there that I don't know enough about. I'm sure I'll learn soon enough.
If you are informed about the 2020 election, it is not possible to question the official story, unless you are irrational.

The point is that there are certain things that simply cannot be believed by people who are both knowledgeable and rational. We often label them "conspiracy theories", because a common element in a lot of those beliefs is that there is an assertion that some unnamed individuals are working together clandestinely to achieve their goals.

What I find interesting, but frightening, is that so many people can be caught up in these conspiracy theories. There are millions of people who believe that the 2020 election was stolen due to massive election fraud. That's actually crazy, and yet millions believe it, and the chief spreader of that garbage is now president-elect. Over at SkepticalCommunity, it's the dominant belief among the "skeptics" at that forum.

To your point, it would be wrong to dismiss something just because someone told you it's a conspiracy theory. We shouldn't pre-judge. Instead, we should examine the evidence. Having done so, there are plenty of cases where, at that point, it's ok to believe that it's a conspiracy theory, or that it is some other form of idiocy.

Posted: **Sun Nov 24, 2024 4:31 pm**

Meadmaker wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 6:58 amThere are millions of people who believe that the 2020 election was stolen due to massive election fraud. That's actually crazy, and yet millions believe it, and the chief spreader of that garbage is now president-elect. Over at SkepticalCommunity, it's the dominant belief among the "skeptics" at that forum.

What's even more insane is the enormous number of times Trump claimed illegal voting was taking place this time, yet he won. He was clearly wrong, and equally-clearly, the idea that 2020 was stolen is crazy.

Maybe you should look at an angle that says - ok, you won in 2020, so you're not allowed to stand in 2024.

Posted: **Sun Nov 24, 2024 8:50 pm**

Meadmaker wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 6:58 am
stanky wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:25 am It's possible to question the official story of the JFK assassination, without thinking the moon landing was a hoax.
It's possible to agree with some of RFK jr's stance and not like Trump, at all. It's possible to be a fan of vaccinations while finding Pfizer to be an untrustworthy corporation.

The all or none mentality is a drag. It seeks divisiveness. It pre-judges, poorly, in needing to define and categorize quickly. It's arrogant. Ultimately, boring.
If you are informed about the JFK assassination, it is not possible to question the official story, unless you are irrational.
If you are informed about the moon landing, it is not possible to think it is a hoax, unless you are irrational.
As for RFK.....I don't even know what that fellow is up to. There's so much there that I don't know enough about. I'm sure I'll learn soon enough.
If you are informed about the 2020 election, it is not possible to question the official story, unless you are irrational.

The point is that there are certain things that simply cannot be believed by people who are both knowledgeable and rational. We often label them "conspiracy theories", because a common element in a lot of those beliefs is that there is an assertion that some unnamed individuals are working together clandestinely to achieve their goals.

What I find interesting, but frightening, is that so many people can be caught up in these conspiracy theories. There are millions of people who believe that the 2020 election was stolen due to massive election fraud. That's actually crazy, and yet millions believe it, and the chief spreader of that garbage is now president-elect. Over at SkepticalCommunity, it's the dominant belief among the "skeptics" at that forum.

To your point, it would be wrong to dismiss something just because someone told you it's a conspiracy theory. We shouldn't pre-judge. Instead, we should examine the evidence. Having done so, there are plenty of cases where, at that point, it's ok to believe that it's a conspiracy theory, or that it is some other form of idiocy.

Your stance on this(first line of your post above) doesn't seem to take into account the actual conspiracies that have been verified. Our government has done some crazy shit and lied about it. Surely you've heard of a few of them?
Your complete trust of government reports may be irrational. At least it (Kennedy assassinations, for instance) warrants healthy skepticism?

Posted: **Sun Nov 24, 2024 10:51 pm**

stanky wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 8:50 pm Your stance on this(first line of your post above) doesn't seem to take into account the actual conspiracies that have been verified. Our government has done some crazy shit and lied about it. Surely you've heard of a few of them?
Your complete trust of government reports may be irrational. At least it (Kennedy assassinations, for instance) warrants healthy skepticism?

Your first line above is basically, "Because there are actual conspiracies, every conspiracy theory could be true. Or at least warrants healthy skepticism."

What I am saying is that if you are informed, it means you have researched the theory.

Having researched the JFK assassination quite deeply, I am saying that it has been proven beyond all doubt that Lee Oswald, acting on his own, shot and killed John Kennedy using a mail order rifle.

That isn't accepting the government report, that is the result of sincere investigation of all available evidence. There truly is no room for doubt. If you do not agree, you are either uninformed or irrational.

Likewise with the other examples I cited. (Note: I did not say that about anything RFK Jr. said. I frankly don't know what he said. I feel that his statements warrant healthy skepticism, but I just haven't looked into them deeply enough to say, conclusively, that he's a lunatic. I kind of lean in that direction based on what I've heard, but I won't say it has been proven, to me.)

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