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Re: trump off the CO ballot
Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:08 pm
by arthwollipot
Meadmaker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 3:07 pm
arthwollipot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 7:29 am
If he becomes President he just pardons himself and gets off scot free. If he becomes President, it means that the President is above the law - that the law does not apply. In other words, a king.
The President can't pardon state crimes.
Then one of his sycophant governors does it for him. Same diff.
Re: trump off the CO ballot
Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:08 pm
by arthwollipot
Meadmaker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 4:29 pmYou are wrong.
Cohen was never tried. He pled guilty. There was no trial.
In what did he plead?
Re: trump off the CO ballot
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2024 12:03 am
by Meadmaker
arthwollipot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:08 pm
Meadmaker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 4:29 pmYou are wrong.
Cohen was never tried. He pled guilty. There was no trial.
In what did he plead?
Five counts of tax evasion, not related to Trump. One count of illegal campaign contributions, which we all know about. One count of lying to a bank. I didn't read that section. I suspect it was about Trump, when he took out a home equity loand. He probably didn't say, "Pay hush money for a client" on the application. However, I really don't know. It was described in President Bush's link, but I didn't read that section.
Re: trump off the CO ballot
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2024 12:12 am
by Meadmaker
arthwollipot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:08 pm
Meadmaker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 3:07 pm
arthwollipot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 7:29 am
If he becomes President he just pardons himself and gets off scot free. If he becomes President, it means that the President is above the law - that the law does not apply. In other words, a king.
The President can't pardon state crimes.
Then one of his sycophant governors does it for him. Same diff.
It would have to be the governor of New York, a Democrat.
However, your larger point is still valid. The conviction won't keep him off the ballot. If he wins the election, this will go away, somehow.
Re: trump off the CO ballot
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:27 pm
by Meadmaker
I've been reading and watching a lot of reactions. They make me nervous.
Elon Mush's articulated in his reaction something I find a bit disturbing. I don't have a lot of respect for Elon, or think of him as some sort of intellectual giant or paragon of wisdom. Indeed, I think he's about half crazy. However, it was a celebrity opinion that captured something about what I was thinking. Here's an excerpt quoted by someplace called livemint. Never heard of it, but Elon's tweet can be found in lots of places. For some reason, google picked livemint:
Elon Musk defends Trump's guilty verdict:
While reacting to Trump's guilty verdict in the Hush money case, Musk reacted, “Indeed, great damage was done today to the public’s faith in the American legal system."
“If a former President can be criminally convicted over such a trivial matter – motivated by politics, rather than justice – then anyone is at risk of a similar fate." the billionaire added
First, I was amused by the source's section heading. It doesn't exactly sound like a "defense" to me. But that's not important. The content, in quote above, is what I was referring to.
I'm not sure that this could happen to anyone, but it could certainly happen to an awful lot of people. However, what really struck me is that he found a word that I sort of had been searching to describe this case.
"Trivial".
Lawyere will argue whether it was really a crime or really wasn't a crime. Appellate courts will review it. Lots of opinipns will be presented on the internet from scholars, from idiots, and from idiotic scholars. It will be hard to figure out whose side the law is on.
But regardless of the final outcome, or where it will be decided, Donald Trump's actions, for which he is, at least temporarily, a convicted felon, were trivial.
Re: trump off the CO ballot
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:02 am
by arthwollipot
Meadmaker wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 12:03 am
arthwollipot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:08 pm
Meadmaker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 4:29 pmYou are wrong.
Cohen was never tried. He pled guilty. There was no trial.
In what did he plead?
Five counts of tax evasion, not related to Trump. One count of illegal campaign contributions, which we all know about. One count of lying to a bank. I didn't read that section. I suspect it was about Trump, when he took out a home equity loand. He probably didn't say, "Pay hush money for a client" on the application. However, I really don't know. It was described in President Bush's link, but I didn't read that section.
No no, my meaning is that he pled in a trial. There was a trial, he pled guilty, the trial ended.
Re: trump off the CO ballot
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:24 am
by Meadmaker
arthwollipot wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:02 am
Meadmaker wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 12:03 am
arthwollipot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:08 pm
In what did he plead?
Five counts of tax evasion, not related to Trump. One count of illegal campaign contributions, which we all know about. One count of lying to a bank. I didn't read that section. I suspect it was about Trump, when he took out a home equity loand. He probably didn't say, "Pay hush money for a client" on the application. However, I really don't know. It was described in President Bush's link, but I didn't read that section.
No no, my meaning is that he pled in a trial. There was a trial, he pled guilty, the trial ended.
No, that is not the case. The defendant enters a plea in a hearing. If the defendant pleads not guilty, then a trial is scheduled.* If a defendant pleads guilty, there is no trial.
ETA: *The exact process varies from one jurisdiction to another, and there is a difference between misdemeanors and felonies. However, there is no trial if the defendant pleads guilty.
Michael Cohen has never been on trial for anything.
ETA2: I misread your original question. I thought you were asking to what did he plead.
The answer is that he pled in a pre-trial hearing. I don't know if that hearing has a specific name. It wasn't a trial.
Re: trump off the CO ballot
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:30 am
by arthwollipot
Is a "hearing" not part of a trial?
Re: trump off the CO ballot
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:30 am
by Meadmaker
arthwollipot wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:30 am
Is a "hearing" not part of a trial?
No.
Re: trump off the CO ballot
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2024 2:06 am
by President Bush
Meadmaker wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:27 pm
I've been reading and watching a lot of reactions. They make me nervous.
Elon Mush's articulated in his reaction something I find a bit disturbing. I don't have a lot of respect for Elon, or think of him as some sort of intellectual giant or paragon of wisdom. Indeed, I think he's about half crazy. However, it was a celebrity opinion that captured something about what I was thinking. Here's an excerpt quoted by someplace called livemint. Never heard of it, but Elon's tweet can be found in lots of places. For some reason, google picked livemint:
Elon Musk defends Trump's guilty verdict:
While reacting to Trump's guilty verdict in the Hush money case, Musk reacted, “Indeed, great damage was done today to the public’s faith in the American legal system."
“If a former President can be criminally convicted over such a trivial matter – motivated by politics, rather than justice – then anyone is at risk of a similar fate." the billionaire added
First, I was amused by the source's section heading. It doesn't exactly sound like a "defense" to me. But that's not important. The content, in quote above, is what I was referring to.
I'm not sure that this could happen to anyone, but it could certainly happen to an awful lot of people. However, what really struck me is that he found a word that I sort of had been searching to describe this case.
"Trivial".
Lawyere will argue whether it was really a crime or really wasn't a crime. Appellate courts will review it. Lots of opinipns will be presented on the internet from scholars, from idiots, and from idiotic scholars. It will be hard to figure out whose side the law is on.
But regardless of the final outcome, or where it will be decided, Donald Trump's actions, for which he is, at least temporarily, a convicted felon, were trivial.
Hard to imagine anything more trivial than attempting to prevent wealthy and powerful people from using their businesses to commit crimes and hide from accountability.