recogitare.com

Remember stank: It is possible to disagree with a debate partner without becoming emotional about it.

I know. I've done it lots of times!

Getting emotional means that one immediately loses the debate.

It's an emotional subject. Nobody is Spock.

arthwollipot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 11:51 pm It's an emotional subject. Nobody is Spock.

not true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdKG6Qq07gk

stanky wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 6:46 pm Yet the slaughter of the Palestinians, however fast and vicious, is not at all out of step with America's nasty habit. Or maybe we really can't remember our history...even the recent stuff. Remember "Shock and Awe" and our reaction to 911? The media played along nicely as we were unified in our acceptance and zeal for destroying Iraq, under false pretense.

The American response to 9/11 created the first and only time I sided with NZ's premier anti-war and anti-US protestor, John Minto. On all previous interactions, we've ended up in a shouting match.

After 9/11 we both published articles on the same day, stating that America would act like a school bully who got a black eye and lash out at everyone weaker than him. And that's exactly what they did.

Israel has made the identical move.

stanky wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 6:46 pm It shows what it is that touches our sore place. We don't mind lies that get a million kids killed, but we draw the line at supposed lies regarding a sketchy drug? Wtf?

Yet again I defer to Uncle Joe Stalin.

"One death is tragedy, one million deaths is statistic."

Admin wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2023 11:42 pm
After 9/11 we both published articles on the same day, stating that America would act like a school bully who got a black eye and lash out at everyone weaker than him. And that's exactly what they did.

I would have supported my government's moves against the Taliban in Afghanistan, had they stopped there. But of course we launched another war in Iraq, based on rather transparent lies. Also, as time went on in Afghanistan, there were more and more people killed in cases where the US military thought they had inddentified a military target, and they called in an airstike on a wedding.

Israel is doing some of that. Shoot first and ask questions later. Use way more force than necessary.

But........from the river to the sea. How do you respond to that? How do you respond to "We want you dead!" I wish there were a good answer, but I don't see one.

Meadmaker wrote: ↑Mon Dec 25, 2023 4:02 am

Admin wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2023 11:42 pm
After 9/11 we both published articles on the same day, stating that America would act like a school bully who got a black eye and lash out at everyone weaker than him. And that's exactly what they did.

I would have supported my government's moves against the Taliban in Afghanistan, had they stopped there. But of course we launched another war in Iraq, based on rather transparent lies. Also, as time went on in Afghanistan, there were more and more people killed in cases where the US military thought they had inddentified a military target, and they called in an airstike on a wedding.

Israel is doing some of that. Shoot first and ask questions later. Use way more force than necessary.

But........from the river to the sea. How do you respond to that? How do you respond to "We want you dead!" I wish there were a good answer, but I don't see one.

Offer them the skull of a close relative, baked until golden brown and drizzled with honey and chopped nuts.

Meadmaker wrote: ↑Mon Dec 25, 2023 4:02 amBut........from the river to the sea. How do you respond to that? How do you respond to "We want you dead!" I wish there were a good answer, but I don't see one.

Whatever the answer is, this isn't it: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/israel-p ... ec45a22239

In as much as religious associations are the culprit in intractable conflicts, there should be the option of rejecting one's own religion along with the enemy's. In lieu of that, some religions are able to evolve slightly to accommodate modernity, while still maintaining enough of the scriptural mumbo jumbo to retain an identity. The Mormons, for instance, were able to reject parts of their holy words in order to not be murdered by irate other religious folks. So, they (mostly) canned the plural marriage stuff, while retaining extremely patriarchal misogyny. Later on, after my encounters with l.d.s., they even scraped the holy stuff about darkies being unworthy of priesthood on account of some super sin from Cain and Abel times. As it went in their good book, Negroes could eventually become white and wholesome. Yeah, kind of embarrassing. The Amish manage (barely) to carry on, despite endless splinter groups, able to use varying amounts of modernity. It seems pretty silly; even hypocritical, as we observe these various compromises...like, why not cut to the chase? Fire the God that forbids you to dance or have color or play an instrument. We were all ok with the animal sacrifice stuff being scraped (with the exception of some gnarly Hindu attempt at feeding their endlessly cruel and needy God with tons of butchered beasts) and other parts remained.

As a minority, Jews are highly educated compared to other groups. They should know better? Yet, as with most theology that takes itself seriously, there are flavors available, and the most fundamental of them, across the spectrum of religions, tend to eschew education. Hasidic Jews are as dumb and inbred as the strictest Amish sects. Both forbid public education beyond grade 8; both insist on marriage within the order; both make for good study on stunted gene pool malfunctions in offspring. The famous cousin fuckers of Pakistan, devout Muslims of some type; are being defeated from within by the fruits of their ignorance. Should they ignore all advise and continue down that road, they won't pose a threat for long.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in this most immediate case, weren't the Israelis attacked first?

But stank you are correct. If we did without religion, none of this shit would happen. Ideas like Sky Daddy are tough to lose.

sure...in response to an untenable situation suffered by the Palestinians and enforced by Israel.
It was a recipe for this tragedy; predictable; even inevitable.
Natch, there are conspiracy theories that it was a false flag operation, designed to draw the U.S. into war with Iran.
No telling what the truth is once giant weapons manufacturers get pulled in.
That money is irresistible. Better than illegal drug money. Almost as good as legal drug money.

Not saying there was conspiracy. hell, it hardly matters. The whole sorry fate of the world is a conspiracy. if it came about all legal and out in the open, well...that's even sadder.