recogitare.com

I've been chatting a bunch over at SkepticalCommunity. I started the account because I really wanted to interact with Trump supporters regarding the election denying.

I kind of expected that they would be folks who dismissed his election denying lies as unimportant, but I wanted to see how they reconciled that with democracy. It turns out they were much farther gone than that. The place is overrun with people who truly believe 2020 was stolen. So, I wanted to see what they would say.

It turns out garden variety conspiracy theory behavior. For anyone who has ever tried to have a conversation with a conspiracy believer about the Kennedy assassination, or the moon landing, or 9/11 Truthers, it's all the same. I used to wonder how conspiracy theorists would answer certain arguments, but the answer is that they don't. They just insist that their fantasies are reality, and that you are obviously a fool who has been duped by the conspiracy, or, if you are too insistent, maybe part of that conspiracy yourself, although way down in the hierarchy.

It's particularly insufferable when there are groups of them. I'm seeing the usual behavior where they start talking amongst themselves. That kind of reinforcement is really important to the conspiracy theorists. They need affirmation of their beliefs.

Unfortunately, though, there are millions of Americans who have bought into it. Most don't actively participate in discussions about it, but Trump himself, and some voices in what passes for media these days, provide the needed affirmation. They don't need to look into it themselves, their leader assures tham that what they believe is true. It's scary.

Speaking of scary, I know I saw, a day or two before the election, an ad for Trump which, near the end was shown a scene where Trump was entering a stadium, and a couple of screen overlays were posted, and one of them said "One Leader". Did anyone else see that? I've been trying to find it in youtube or other archives of political advertisements, and I found a similar ad, but without the "leader" graphics. I suppose it's possible that someone explained the significance of the phrase and someone on the campaign decided some editing was a good idea.

Aren't all elections stolen? More or less? There's always cheating. May the best cheaters and thieves win!

Eisenhower was the first candidate to make use of tv. Probably didn't think of it himself, but his people had him learn the answers to a handful of pertinent questions...like, memorize the answer...and then they hit the streets, filming people asking Ike questions...and, lo and behold, by editing, he looked brilliant! Spoke so well! I remember him beating Stevenson, whom my folks wanted. There were also those dumb buttons..."I like Ike"...so cheesy, the rhyme...but it worked. TV had begun the dumbing down and fattening up process.

I doubt we ever get a sense of the will of the people in our elections. That's been carefully avoided.

stanky wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 8:12 pm I doubt we ever get a sense of the will of the people in our elections. That's been carefully avoided.

It's an American problem. Most countries have very high vote levels. The fact USA doesn't is why you get the government you deserve.

Meadmaker wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 6:09 pmThey just insist that their fantasies are reality, and that you are obviously a fool who has been duped by the conspiracy, or, if you are too insistent, maybe part of that conspiracy yourself, although way down in the hierarchy.

That's why I stay away from conspiracists. It's not worth my blood pressure or jail time to be around them because holding my say isn't an option.

A few years ago I told a bunch of disgusting old white men protesting abortions at a major set of traffic lights to fuck off before I got back to the corner because I was going to park and go back there. When I did, they'd gone, which is lucky, because I would have been arrested for assault. Antivaxers wouldn't have got a warning.

It's particularly insufferable when there are groups of them. I'm seeing the usual behavior where they start talking amongst themselves. That kind of reinforcement is really important to the conspiracy theorists. They need affirmation of their beliefs.

Meadmaker wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 6:09 pmUnfortunately, though, there are millions of Americans who have bought into it. Most don't actively participate in discussions about it, but Trump himself, and some voices in what passes for media these days, provide the needed affirmation. They don't need to look into it themselves, their leader assures tham that what they believe is true. It's scary.

The internet has been the worst thing to have happened to humankind, and it's pretty much all Bill Gates' fault.

Microsoft laid the stones for the internet as a social-gathering place and had superb free sites that meant the like of Facebook would never have arisen if MS hadn't pulled the plug. Threads and games were moderated pretty much the same as ISF - no profanity or abuse and swift suspension if there was any.

They had a massive presence and must have had at least 25% of English-speaking people on the internet, but MS couldn't see how to monetise it and gave up. The irony that they now try to hold Bing up as an alternative to Google ads is miles-deep irony. If they'd figured that out early on, the world would be a much better place, Twitter and Facebook wouldn't exist and MS would be worth $10T. Ho hum.

Meadmaker wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 6:09 pmSpeaking of scary, I know I saw, a day or two before the election, an ad for Trump which, near the end was shown a scene where Trump was entering a stadium, and a couple of screen overlays were posted, and one of them said "One Leader". Did anyone else see that? I've been trying to find it in youtube or other archives of political advertisements, and I found a similar ad, but without the "leader" graphics. I suppose it's possible that someone explained the significance of the phrase and someone on the campaign decided some editing was a good idea.

I fucking guarantee Trump hasn't and couldn't read 1984, but I'm sure some of his crew are smart enough to figure that one out.

Good thing he's old and in shit shape. It may be a passing phenomena.
Except the SCOTUS thing. That's some longer lasting shit.
He may be a catalyst for change in the opposite direction.

Meadmaker wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 6:09 pm I've been chatting a bunch over at SkepticalCommunity...

Thank you for your sacrifice.