Planet America

[Meadmaker]

I've been chatting a bunch over at SkepticalCommunity. I started the account because I really wanted to interact with Trump supporters regarding the election denying.

I kind of expected that they would be folks who dismissed his election denying lies as unimportant, but I wanted to see how they reconciled that with democracy. It turns out they were much farther gone than that. The place is overrun with people who truly believe 2020 was stolen. So, I wanted to see what they would say.

It turns out garden variety conspiracy theory behavior. For anyone who has ever tried to have a conversation with a conspiracy believer about the Kennedy assassination, or the moon landing, or 9/11 Truthers, it's all the same. I used to wonder how conspiracy theorists would answer certain arguments, but the answer is that they don't. They just insist that their fantasies are reality, and that you are obviously a fool who has been duped by the conspiracy, or, if you are too insistent, maybe part of that conspiracy yourself, although way down in the hierarchy.

It's particularly insufferable when there are groups of them. I'm seeing the usual behavior where they start talking amongst themselves. That kind of reinforcement is really important to the conspiracy theorists. They need affirmation of their beliefs.

Unfortunately, though, there are millions of Americans who have bought into it. Most don't actively participate in discussions about it, but Trump himself, and some voices in what passes for media these days, provide the needed affirmation. They don't need to look into it themselves, their leader assures tham that what they believe is true. It's scary.

Speaking of scary, I know I saw, a day or two before the election, an ad for Trump which, near the end was shown a scene where Trump was entering a stadium, and a couple of screen overlays were posted, and one of them said "One Leader". Did anyone else see that? I've been trying to find it in youtube or other archives of political advertisements, and I found a similar ad, but without the "leader" graphics. I suppose it's possible that someone explained the significance of the phrase and someone on the campaign decided some editing was a good idea.

[stanky]

Aren't all elections stolen? More or less? There's always cheating. May the best cheaters and thieves win!

Eisenhower was the first candidate to make use of tv. Probably didn't think of it himself, but his people had him learn the answers to a handful of pertinent questions...like, memorize the answer...and then they hit the streets, filming people asking Ike questions...and, lo and behold, by editing, he looked brilliant! Spoke so well! I remember him beating Stevenson, whom my folks wanted. There were also those dumb buttons..."I like Ike"...so cheesy, the rhyme...but it worked. TV had begun the dumbing down and fattening up process.

I doubt we ever get a sense of the will of the people in our elections. That's been carefully avoided.

[Admin]

I doubt we ever get a sense of the will of the people in our elections. That's been carefully avoided.

It's an American problem. Most countries have very high vote levels. The fact USA doesn't is why you get the government you deserve.

[Admin]

They just insist that their fantasies are reality, and that you are obviously a fool who has been duped by the conspiracy, or, if you are too insistent, maybe part of that conspiracy yourself, although way down in the hierarchy.

That's why I stay away from conspiracists. It's not worth my blood pressure or jail time to be around them because holding my say isn't an option.

A few years ago I told a bunch of disgusting old white men protesting abortions at a major set of traffic lights to fuck off before I got back to the corner because I was going to park and go back there. When I did, they'd gone, which is lucky, because I would have been arrested for assault. Antivaxers wouldn't have got a warning.

It's particularly insufferable when there are groups of them. I'm seeing the usual behavior where they start talking amongst themselves. That kind of reinforcement is really important to the conspiracy theorists. They need affirmation of their beliefs.

Unfortunately, though, there are millions of Americans who have bought into it. Most don't actively participate in discussions about it, but Trump himself, and some voices in what passes for media these days, provide the needed affirmation. They don't need to look into it themselves, their leader assures tham that what they believe is true. It's scary.

The internet has been the worst thing to have happened to humankind, and it's pretty much all Bill Gates' fault.

Microsoft laid the stones for the internet as a social-gathering place and had superb free sites that meant the like of Facebook would never have arisen if MS hadn't pulled the plug. Threads and games were moderated pretty much the same as ISF - no profanity or abuse and swift suspension if there was any.

They had a massive presence and must have had at least 25% of English-speaking people on the internet, but MS couldn't see how to monetise it and gave up. The irony that they now try to hold Bing up as an alternative to Google ads is miles-deep irony. If they'd figured that out early on, the world would be a much better place, Twitter and Facebook wouldn't exist and MS would be worth $10T. Ho hum.

Speaking of scary, I know I saw, a day or two before the election, an ad for Trump which, near the end was shown a scene where Trump was entering a stadium, and a couple of screen overlays were posted, and one of them said "One Leader". Did anyone else see that? I've been trying to find it in youtube or other archives of political advertisements, and I found a similar ad, but without the "leader" graphics. I suppose it's possible that someone explained the significance of the phrase and someone on the campaign decided some editing was a good idea.

I fucking guarantee Trump hasn't and couldn't read 1984, but I'm sure some of his crew are smart enough to figure that one out.

[stanky]

Good thing he's old and in shit shape. It may be a passing phenomena.
Except the SCOTUS thing. That's some longer lasting shit.
He may be a catalyst for change in the opposite direction.

[arthwollipot]

I've been chatting a bunch over at SkepticalCommunity...

Thank you for your sacrifice.

[President Bush]

Pretty sure you need to identify with your US passport when leaving/returning to the US. Looks like the Irish passport is great one to have though with Ireland being part of the EU, believe that gives you European Union citizenship.

That's correct.

Even if we decided to move to Ireland permanently to escape Trumpland, I would expect that I would get on the plane with my American passport, and then once we landed report to the appropriate government office and let them know we were staying.

I don't know their rules on spousal admission, but I assume my wife would be allowed to immigrate if her husband is a citizen.

I seriously doubt it will come to that. I think Trump would be perfectly happy shredding the constitution and assuming dictatorial powers, but the rest of the government isn't that far gone. But I never imagined that anyone could get re-elected after trying to overthrow an election. We're already through the looking glass in America. Who knows where it ends?

Oh man, hope you still have the Irish passport renewed, what a great thing to have. Like a get-out-of-jail-free card, probably will never need it, but it sure looks handy.

Leaving the country doesn´t have to equal a permanent move. First one has to see how they like being somewhere else far away. I already know how I like being somewhere else far away, it´s generally a gas.

In addition to that am looking forward to getting the hell out of here come sometime in January so that I don´t get arrested and end up in jail, not fair to my wife who has become somewhat dependent on me.

I see trouble brewing.

[Admin]

I see trouble brewing.

And from all angles - the win has prompted the lunatic right to expand on their lunatic ideas.

I shake my head in amazement that people think raw milk is a good thing, and it's no surprise the driver for it the far-right. If a government says it's bad, it must be good. https://www.axios.com/2024/11/20/what-i ... alth-risks

Mike Moore had a theory that Trump wants to destroy the government - and it looks like he's probably right.

[grayman]

Mike Moore had a theory that Trump wants to destroy the government - and it looks like he's probably right.

When it all burns to the ground, remember DJT's mantra:

“I don’t take responsibility at all”.

[Admin]

When it all burns to the ground, remember DJT's mantra:

“I don’t take responsibility at all”.

He never has, so why start now?

I'm still thinking it's some weird dream that I'll wake up from.

Dissatisfaction with the Democrats I understand. Being worried about inflation (while bullshit) I understand.

What I don't understand is how anyone but a billionaire could vote for that steaming pile of human garbage.