Planet America

[Admin]

So there's a balance that must be struck. Too much benefits and it discourages work. Too little benefits and there's no safety net.

Maybe you should have a look at countries which actually operate social welfare and see how they compare to America.

[Admin]

i saw this editorial about the 2 bombs we dropped on Japan:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/time-end-myt ... 00250.html

the assessment is that it was unnecessary.
there was wide agreement about that, in high places.
Who does something like that!!??

Fuck me, you found something we agree on.

The atomic bombs were a war crime, but then again, so were the firestorms of Dresden and Hamburg.

In my world, Butcher Harris would have been executed long before Goering.

yet, we're focused on Russia and the immense threat.

i think they'd be happy to be buddies with the U.S.
other than tribal war chiefs, my guess is that the whole world is ready to move on...except us.
we're dragging our feet and our knuckles to appease the worst type of behavior for sustainability...continued movement of wealth to the few and away from the many.

Then you type a load of utter shit again.

America and the West were ready to be friends with Russia after Gorbachev; it is 100% Russia's fault that the present state of affairs exists.

Identical with China; they'd been moving closer to the West right up until the day the tanks went into Tienanmen Square.

You know fucking well I'm no supporter of American muscle, but thank fuck it's there right now, because Putin wouldn't stop at enslaving and massacring millions of Ukrainians. He's insane and must be stopped and America bears zero percent responsibility for his insanity. Ditto Xi - there is no fucking need whatsoever for China to take over Taiwan, yet they say in black and white they're going to.

[sparks]

Just finished the link stanky provided. In your world TA, who exactly is 'Butcher Harris'? I don't see the name in the article and can make no connection with any persons living or dead who had anything to say about nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

As for the act itself not being necessary, I think the point is highly debatable. And all sides in the conflict let loose with atrocities. Suggest you take it up with all the folks, both combatants and civilians who died in Indo China, The Bataan Death March, and all the victims of the shit the Nazis pulled.

Truman has been quoted as saying "When you deal with a beast, you've got to treat them as a beast." Does that justify dropping nukes? Probably not.

Fact remains it was done and the time for crying about it is long since over.

If China and/or Russia escalate their current little projects into brush fire wars like Korea or Vietnam, would you rather it went on for year after bloody year? Or shall we try to maintain the uneasy peace by letting these people know exactly what we'll do if they continue to fuck with world order?

I'm well aware of the fact that a nuclear exchange with either or both Xi and Putin will turn in to a planet killing catastrophe. But where and what is that 3rd alternative? We sure as hell aren't going to sacrifice ourselves and our allies just to save a shitty power tripping semblance of humanity. If some dumb sonofabitch launches on us, we're virtually assured of retaliating. That will lead to escalation. In that lovely event, kiss humans and most of the biosphere good bye.

And Sky Daddy help me, I rather prefer that to any alternatives that may or may not develop after the Big Exchange.

[stanky]

so,
we are the good guys?
because communism spreads?
even though what we're up to won't work, and is killing the world, it's still ten times better than that evil that is spread by "an axis of evil", etc.
remember that guy?

we can justify anything, but at some point, do we admit who we are?

T.A., you wrote a heap of predictable pro U.S. military propaganda that is surprising.

here's a compilation of assassinations:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM_p4QhuBVE

[sparks]

so,
we are the good guys?
because communism spreads?
even though what we're up to won't work, and is killing the world, it's still ten times better than that evil that is spread by "an axis of evil", etc.
remember that guy?

we can justify anything, but at some point, do we admit who we are?

T.A., you wrote a heap of predictable pro U.S. military propaganda that is surprising.

here's a compilation of assassinations:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM_p4QhuBVE

Read what I wrote. Never said we're 'the good guys'. To hell with what communism does or does not do with the possible exception of making an honest effort to get along with everyone else on he planet.

Since when is what we're up to not working and is killing the planet? We're not the only ones burning fossil fuel you know. Those are your assessments of the current situation. Do you want to stand by and not retaliate should they chose the nuclear option? As for admitting who we are, I'd simply point out that it would be good if we all could find a way to avoid self destruction. Otherwise who we are is simply trying to survive that which clearly isn't survivable. And that could be taken as insanity.

As for your list of assassinations, all those pinheaded 'leaders' seem to do the same thing. Based on a sick and ugly desire for power, money and more of each. We're no better or worse than any of the others. All are equally indictable.

This mess of stupidity is never going to improve unless/until enough leaders come to the realization that we all have to live here together and fucking well get along, or we kill each other.

[arthwollipot]

But what if, instead of earning double, you would earn 20% more by working? I think an awful lot of people would choose not to work. (Especially when you factor in that there is often a cost of working, in the form of transporation, food, or clothing that is only required for the job. If there's child care involved, forget it.)

As it turns out, this has actually been studied, and fewer people than you expect choose not to work.

And even if they do choose not to work, what's the downside of that? Employers have to offer higher incentives for shitty jobs, which is something that should be happening anyway.

I've been trying to find the study - I think it was in Iceland but I could be wrong - where a system was trialled and almost nobody chose not to work. Remember, the point of UBI is to keep people off the poverty line. If they want anything other than food and a home, they will need to find some way of earning some money.

[grayman]

But what if, instead of earning double, you would earn 20% more by working? I think an awful lot of people would choose not to work. (Especially when you factor in that there is often a cost of working, in the form of transporation, food, or clothing that is only required for the job. If there's child care involved, forget it.)

As it turns out, this has actually been studied, and fewer people than you expect choose not to work.

And even if they do choose not to work, what's the downside of that? Employers have to offer higher incentives for shitty jobs, which is something that should be happening anyway.

I've been trying to find the study - I think it was in Iceland but I could be wrong - where a system was trialled and almost nobody chose not to work. Remember, the point of UBI is to keep people off the poverty line. If they want anything other than food and a home, they will need to find some way of earning some money.

Quick search found this:

https://www.givedirectly.org/2023-ubi-results/

[stanky]

Sparky, you wrote a lot there.
All but the last bit seemed kinda redneck to me.
America consumes and pollutes more than her share.
We aren't as committed as we pretend, to be to changing that.

you think we've been treated unfairly?
look at what we've done in other countries,
playing with them for greed, spreading a violent ideology....

who compares to us in this violence?
who locks up more people?
bombs more?
drives more, does more drugs, shoots more fellow citizens?

why should we be trusted?
we're horrible cops.
constant war crimes, no one caught.

suddenly people are hallucinating.
i hate that we have this bloated military.
and decide who needs killin'.

[sparks]

I'm afraid I cannot agree with your opinion of our country.

Yes, we're bloody bad. So's every other developing nation on the planet.

All trying to get ahead in this wasteful and stupid game of competition.

Cooperation would work so much better IMHO.

[Meadmaker]

America consumes and pollutes more than her share.
....
who compares to us in this violence?

Well.....yes, but I'm not sure you understand the relationship between these facts.

Being the richest country* in the world carries with it some issues. First, we are attacked more than any other country. Second, because we are rich, we can afford a bigger military, which gives us the ability to respond to situations that other countries simply cannot. If the Duchy of Grand Fenwick decided that a grave injustice had occurred in the Indian Ocean somewhere, which threatened their vital interests, they would have no ability to respond. If the same thing happened to the United States, we have aircraft carriers for that sort of thing.

Grand Fenwick would have aircraft carriers, too, if they could afford them.

i hate that we have this bloated military.
and decide who needs killin'.

Well somebody has to do it!

And, I'm only partially jesting. The fact is that lots of nations, not to mention non-governmental entities, decide that all sorts of people need killing. Specifically germaine to this conversation, Russia, in the form of Vladmir Putin and the government he dominates, decided that a whole bunch of Ukranians needed killing, and he did.

So, how should we, or the Germans, or the Japanese, or the Chinese, or the people of the 193 other countries of the world respond to that aggression? I can't pretend to be certain of the wisest answer to that question, but I can be certain that it makes sense for the Ukranians to respond by killing a bunch of Russians in the hopes that the rest of the Russians leave the Ukranians alone. And, if they do that, I'm hard pressed to understand why helping the Ukranians in that task is a bad idea.



*I haven't checked stats lately. By some measures, I don't think this is always true anymore. But it was true for most of my life, so I'm sticking with it.