trump off the CO ballot

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President Bush
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Re: trump off the CO ballot

Post by President Bush »

Admin wrote: Fri May 31, 2024 10:18 am Martyrs are dangerous.

The only good news is that sooner or later it will come up for appeal at a Trump-controlled court, possibly SCOTUS, and the result will be reversed.
From what I understand of how these things work I doubt it.
An appeal of a jury verdict will succeed only if the appellate court makes a finding of "reversible error." A reversible error causes a result that would not have occurred had the court acted properly.

https://www.justia.com/trials-litigatio ... s/appeals/
Didn't Michael Cohen spent three years in federal prison for his crimes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noJo-bJ ... rt_radio=1
Meadmaker
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Re: trump off the CO ballot

Post by Meadmaker »

President Bush wrote: Fri May 31, 2024 2:37 pm
Didn't Michael Cohen spent three years in federal prison for his crimes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noJo-bJ ... rt_radio=1
I'll share something I didn't know until last week. I'm not sure why I didn't know it. It's really important in understanding this case, but I didn't know it.

I had heard Bill Maher say something along the lines of "Of course he's guilty. Michael Cohen already served time for these crimes. How can Cohen be guilty, but the guy who told him to do it be innocent?" That made complete sense to me.

The part I didn't know is that Michael Cohen only sort of pled guilty and did time for election contributions, one of the three possible crimes that might have been part of the underlying offense for which Donald Trump was convicted. Technically, it's true, but technical truth is the best kind of truth, right? The part I didn't know is that Michael Cohen had a side hustle, which had nothing to do with Trump. He leased out New York City taxi medallions. If you want to look into a cesspool of corruption, read up on New York City taxi medallions, but I digress. The point is that Michael Cohen made four million dollars on that side hustle, and he didn't declare a dime of it on his tax returns.

That's the kind of thing that the IRS frowns upon in a big way. It isn't some sort of technical violation, or some guy painting garages and getting paid in cash. Four million bucks of undeclared income will get you thrown in jail. And it did. It could get you thrown in jail for a long time. Enter that wonderful American institution, the plea bargain.

As part of the plea bargain, Michael Cohen also pled guilty to an illegal campaign contribution.

In other words, Michael Cohen has never been tried on any matter related to the Trump case, and a bunch of lawyers say that he really wasn't guilty of an illegal campaign contribution back in 2016. He just pled guilty as part of a plea deal. Is that correct? Ask a lawyer. Ask a bunch of lawyers. You'll get a bunch of answers.

Will that affect the appeal? I don't have the foggiest idea.

There are lots of things going around the press/internet about what might constitute "reversible error" in this case. The most common is the jury instructions, but I think that only a real lawyer would be able to comment on how that might affect an appeal. I'm pretty sure Trump's lawyers knew what was in them. I don't know if they objected. Likewise, with other things, such as admissibility of testimony that might be prejudicial to the defendant.

I know the Surpreme Court can do pretty much whatever it wants, and make up the reasons as they go along. They haven't been Trump pushovers. Not one of them supported any of his election related lawsuits. This is a bit different, though. Will Trump appeal to the SC if he loses on appeal? Will they take the case? Will they rule in his favor? Will one or more of the Justices die between now and the time the case reaches them? Polish those crystal balls. I certainly don't knw. I've been wrong enough already in this case.
stanky
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Re: trump off the CO ballot

Post by stanky »

What difference would any of that make?
He still gets to be president.
His fans will pay his fines.

If he was given prison time, that would be fun.
Trying to imagine it makes decent theater.
His popularity would soar to new heights.

House arrest would be redundant at the White House.
(I kinda want it to be even crazier...like he kills someone and is tried for murder while in office.)
I want clown suits for the supremes.

i wonder if this will make him more vengeful?
Won't he need to punish the jurors?
Possibly by blowing up the world?

maybe we shouldn't make him mad.
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arthwollipot
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Re: trump off the CO ballot

Post by arthwollipot »

If he becomes President he just pardons himself and gets off scot free. If he becomes President, it means that the President is above the law - that the law does not apply. In other words, a king.
If you're not on edge, you're taking up too much space.
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President Bush
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Re: trump off the CO ballot

Post by President Bush »

Meadmaker wrote: Fri May 31, 2024 5:16 pm
President Bush wrote: Fri May 31, 2024 2:37 pm
Didn't Michael Cohen spent three years in federal prison for his crimes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noJo-bJ ... rt_radio=1
In other words, Michael Cohen has never been tried on any matter related to the Trump case, and a bunch of lawyers say that he really wasn't guilty of an illegal campaign contribution back in 2016. He just pled guilty as part of a plea deal. Is that correct? Ask a lawyer. Ask a bunch of lawyers. You'll get a bunch of answers.
Michael Cohen Pleads Guilty In Manhattan Federal Court To Eight Counts, Including Criminal Tax Evasion And Campaign Finance Violations
Tuesday, August 21, 2018

...The Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971, as amended, Title 52, United States Code, Section 30101, et seq., (the “Election Act”), regulates the influence of money on politics. At all relevant times, the Election Act set certain limitations and prohibitions, among them: (a) individual contributions to any presidential candidate, including expenditures coordinated with a candidate or his political committee, were limited to $2,700 per election, and presidential candidates and their committees were prohibited from accepting contributions from individuals in excess of this limit; and (b) Corporations were prohibited from making contributions directly to presidential candidates, including expenditures coordinated with candidates or their committees, and candidates were prohibited from accepting corporate contributions.

On June 16, 2015, Individual-1 began his presidential campaign. While COHEN continued to work at the Company and did not have a formal title with the campaign, he had a campaign email address and, at various times, advised the campaign, including on matters of interest to the press, and made televised and media appearances on behalf of the campaign.

In August 2015, the Chairman and Chief Executive of Corporation-1, a media company that owns, among other things, a popular tabloid magazine (“Chairman-1” and “Magazine-1,” respectively”), in coordination with COHEN and one or more members of the campaign, offered to help deal with negative stories about Individual-1’s relationships with women by, among other things, assisting the campaign in identifying such stories so they could be purchased and their publication avoided. Chairman-1 agreed to keep COHEN apprised of any such negative stories.

Consistent with the agreement described above, Corporation-1 advised COHEN of negative stories during the course of the campaign, and COHEN, with the assistance of Corporation-1, was able to arrange for the purchase of two stories so as to suppress them and prevent them from influencing the election.

First, in June 2016, a model and actress (“Woman-1”) began attempting to sell her story of her alleged extramarital affair with Individual-1 that had taken place in 2006 and 2007, knowing the story would be of considerable value because of the election. Woman-1 retained an attorney (“Attorney-1”), who in turn contacted the editor-in-chief of Magazine-1 (“Editor-1”), and offered to sell Woman-1’s story to Magazine-1. Chairman-1 and Editor-1 informed COHEN of the story. At COHEN’s urging and subject to COHEN’s promise that Corporation-1 would be reimbursed, Editor-1 ultimately began negotiating for the purchase of the story.

On August 5, 2016, Corporation-1 entered into an agreement with Woman-1 to acquire her “limited life rights” to the story of her relationship with “any then-married man,” in exchange for $150,000 and a commitment to feature her on two magazine covers and publish more than 100 magazine articles authored by her. Despite the cover and article features to the agreement, its principal purpose, as understood by those involved, including COHEN, was to suppress Woman-1’s story so as to prevent it from influencing the election.

Between late August 2016 and September 2016, COHEN agreed with Chairman-1 to assign the rights to the non-disclosure portion of Corporation-1’s agreement with Woman-1 to COHEN for $125,000. COHEN incorporated a shell entity called “Resolution Consultants LLC” for use in the transaction. Both Chairman-1 and COHEN ultimately signed the agreement, and a consultant for Corporation-1, using his own shell entity, provided COHEN with an invoice for the payment of $125,000. However, in early October 2016, after the assignment agreement was signed but before COHEN had paid the $125,000, Chairman-1 contacted COHEN and told him, in substance, that the deal was off and that COHEN should tear up the assignment agreement.

Second, on October 8, 2016, an agent for an adult film actress (“Woman-2”) informed Editor-1 that Woman-2 was willing to make public statements and confirm on the record her alleged past affair with Individual-1. Chairman-1 and Editor-1 then contacted COHEN and put him in touch with Attorney-1, who was also representing Woman-2. Over the course of the next few days, COHEN negotiated a $130,000 agreement with Attorney-1 to himself purchase Woman-2’s silence, and received a signed confidential settlement agreement and a separate side letter agreement from Attorney-1.

COHEN did not immediately execute the agreement, nor did he pay Woman-2. On the evening of October 25, 2016, with no deal with Woman-2 finalized, Attorney-1 told Editor-1 that Woman-2 was close to completing a deal with another outlet to make her story public. Editor-1, in turn, texted COHEN that “[w]e have to coordinate something on the matter [Attorney-1 is] calling you about or it could look awfully bad for everyone.” Chairman-1 and Editor-1 then called COHEN through an encrypted telephone application. COHEN agreed to make the payment, and then called Attorney-1 to finalize the deal.

The next day, on October 26, 2016, COHEN emailed an incorporating service to obtain the corporate formation documents for another shell corporation, Essential Consultants LLC, which COHEN had incorporated a few days prior. Later that afternoon, COHEN drew down $131,000 from the fraudulently obtained HELOC and requested that it be deposited into a bank account COHEN had just opened in the name of Essential Consultants. The next morning, on October 27, 2016, COHEN went to Bank-3 and wired approximately $130,000 from Essential Consultants to Attorney-1. On the bank form to complete the wire, COHEN falsely indicated that the “purpose of wire being sent” was “retainer.” On November 1, 2016, COHEN received from Attorney-1 copies of the final, signed confidential settlement agreement and side letter agreement.

COHEN caused and made the payments described herein in order to influence the 2016 presidential election. In so doing, he coordinated with one or more members of the campaign, including through meetings and phone calls, about the fact, nature, and timing of the payments. As a result of the payments solicited and made by COHEN, neither Woman-1 nor Woman-2 spoke to the press prior to the election.

In January 2017, COHEN in seeking reimbursement for election-related expenses, presented executives of the Company with a copy of a bank statement from the Essential Consultants bank account, which reflected the $130,000 payment COHEN had made to the bank account of Attorney-1 in order to keep Woman-2 silent in advance of the election, plus a $35 wire fee, adding, in handwriting, an additional “$50,000.” The $50,000 represented a claimed payment for “tech services,” which in fact related to work COHEN had solicited from a technology company during and in connection with the campaign. COHEN added these amounts to a sum of $180,035. After receiving this document, executives of the Company “grossed up” for tax purposes COHEN’s requested reimbursement of $180,000 to $360,000, and then added a bonus of $60,000 so that COHEN would be paid $420,000 in total. Executives of the Company also determined that the $420,000 would be paid to COHEN in monthly amounts of $35,000 over the course of 12 months, and that COHEN should send invoices for these payments.

On February 14, 2017, COHEN sent an executive of the Company (“Executive-1”) the first of his monthly invoices, requesting “[p]ursuant to [a] retainer agreement, . . . payment for services rendered for the months of January and February, 2017.” The invoice listed $35,000 for each of those two months. Executive-1 forwarded the invoice to another executive of the Company (“Executive-2”) the same day by email, and it was approved. Executive-1 forwarded that email to another employee at the Company, stating: “Please pay from the Trust. Post to legal expenses. Put ‘retainer for the months of January and February 2017’ in the description.”

Throughout 2017, COHEN sent to one or more representatives of the Company monthly invoices, which stated, “Pursuant to the retainer agreement, kindly remit payment for services rendered for” the relevant month in 2017, and sought $35,000 per month. The Company accounted for these payments as legal expenses. In truth and in fact, there was no such retainer agreement, and the monthly invoices COHEN submitted were not in connection with any legal services he had provided in 2017.

During 2017, pursuant to the invoices described above, COHEN received monthly $35,000 reimbursement checks, totaling $420,000.

* * *

COHEN, 51, of NEW YORK, NEW YORK, pleaded guilty to five counts of willful tax evasion; one count of making false statements to a bank; one count of causing an unlawful campaign contribution; and one count of making an excessive campaign contribution.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/mi ... iminal-tax
Meadmaker
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Re: trump off the CO ballot

Post by Meadmaker »

arthwollipot wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2024 7:29 am If he becomes President he just pardons himself and gets off scot free. If he becomes President, it means that the President is above the law - that the law does not apply. In other words, a king.
The President can't pardon state crimes.


But.....I'm pretty sure if he becomes President again, one way or another this thing won't matter. I'm not sure how they'll work it all out, but they will.

Hopefully, it won't happen. (i.e. him becoming President again), but it's really hard to predict. It's just such an unprecedented situation.
Meadmaker
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Re: trump off the CO ballot

Post by Meadmaker »


I only write walls of text. I don't read them.


However, for anyone interested, if you follow President Bush's link, you can see the source of all of the words he quoted, and you can also read about the tax evasion scheme.

"In total, COHEN failed to report more than $4 million in income, resulting in the avoidance of taxes of more than $1.4 million due to the IRS."

The income was earned between 2012 and 2016, and had no connection to Trump. I had said New York City taxi medallions. They were actually Chicago taxi medallions, to the tune of 2.4 million dollars, and a variety of other dealss, for a total of 4 million dollars of unreported income.
'
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President Bush
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Re: trump off the CO ballot

Post by President Bush »

Meadmaker wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2024 3:28 pm

I only write walls of text. I don't read them.


However, for anyone interested, if you follow President Bush's link, you can see the source of all of the words he quoted, and you can also read about the tax evasion scheme.

"In total, COHEN failed to report more than $4 million in income, resulting in the avoidance of taxes of more than $1.4 million due to the IRS."

The income was earned between 2012 and 2016, and had no connection to Trump. I had said New York City taxi medallions. They were actually Chicago taxi medallions, to the tune of 2.4 million dollars, and a variety of other dealss, for a total of 4 million dollars of unreported income.
'
oh. ok... stop posting incorrect statements and I won't post links indicating how you were wrong.
In other words, Michael Cohen has never been tried on any matter related to the Trump case, and a bunch of lawyers say that he really wasn't guilty of an illegal campaign contribution back in 2016. He just pled guilty as part of a plea deal. Is that correct? Ask a lawyer. Ask a bunch of lawyers. You'll get a bunch of answers.
Meadmaker
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Re: trump off the CO ballot

Post by Meadmaker »

President Bush wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2024 4:05 pm
Meadmaker wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2024 3:28 pm

I only write walls of text. I don't read them.


However, for anyone interested, if you follow President Bush's link, you can see the source of all of the words he quoted, and you can also read about the tax evasion scheme.

"In total, COHEN failed to report more than $4 million in income, resulting in the avoidance of taxes of more than $1.4 million due to the IRS."

The income was earned between 2012 and 2016, and had no connection to Trump. I had said New York City taxi medallions. They were actually Chicago taxi medallions, to the tune of 2.4 million dollars, and a variety of other dealss, for a total of 4 million dollars of unreported income.
'
oh. ok... stop posting incorrect statements and I won't post links indicating how you were wrong.
In other words, Michael Cohen has never been tried on any matter related to the Trump case, and a bunch of lawyers say that he really wasn't guilty of an illegal campaign contribution back in 2016. He just pled guilty as part of a plea deal. Is that correct? Ask a lawyer. Ask a bunch of lawyers. You'll get a bunch of answers.
You are wrong.

Cohen was never tried. He pled guilty. There was no trial.



And, some people might find it interesting that he pled guilty as part of a plea bargain agreement that included pleading guilty to tax evasion in an unrelated scheme. Not everyone would find that interesting, but some would.
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President Bush
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Re: trump off the CO ballot

Post by President Bush »

soory, only posted a link from the US Attorney's Offiice Southern District of New York detailing... "Michael Cohen Pleads Guilty In Manhattan Federal Court To Eight Counts, Including Criminal Tax Evasion And Campaign Finance Violations from Tuesday, August 21, 2018". Not my issue that you didn't read it.

Ciao.
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