trump off the CO ballot

[Meadmaker]

that ship has already sailed, imho.

(Stated in regards to democracy)

One of the biggest problems in America today is that people don't realize how good things are. We really do have democracy. It isn't perfect. Lots of room for improvement, but we basically have it. If we ever lose it, people will be dumbfounded when they actually lose their rights.

If we get an actual fascist, will people feel stupid for calling Trump (or Biden) fascists?

What scares me is that Trump is the first person in my lifetime that I think could conceivably lead to dictatorship. I doubt he will, but I'm not going to take a chance by voting for him.

Do you think he could give himself North Korea style authority?

I doubt it, but I wouldn't put it past him to try.

And we'd just fall in line?

It's not so easy, but maybe. When truth ceases to matter, lots of things are possible. You are praising him for not starting wars last time around, but actually, the military was pretty busy. Airstrikes on Iranian generals. Continued battles in Afghanistan. Destroying Isis, or at least destroying it as a territorial entity. Donald Trump is no peacenik.

If he starts one that goes on for a while, the restrictions will come. He'll call anti-war activists traitors, and probably try to make it stick in court.


And I don't think he'll succeed. I think the public won't put up with it, and even the MAGA crowd will think twice as he steps toward dictatorship.....I think.

[stanky]

i shudder to think i'm praising Trump.

we may have it good, but at a high price. it feels utterly unsustainable. media plays into the darkness, as does the climate.
but it's the sword rattling that bothers me most. it's what we're doing elsewhere that's trouble. empire in its hospice phase.

[President Bush]

that ship has already sailed, imho.

(Stated in regards to democracy)

One of the biggest problems in America today is that people don't realize how good things are. We really do have democracy. It isn't perfect. Lots of room for improvement, but we basically have it. If we ever lose it, people will be dumbfounded when they actually lose their rights.

USA is 50th, not too far behind Peru and Argentina, according to this summary...

https://www.idea.int/gsod/2023/countries/

[sparks]

MM says: "One of the biggest problems in America today is that people don't realize how good things are."

No no my friend, you just don't realize how fucked things are. Presumably the Worlds richest and most powerful Democracy and we come in at 50th. Give us a fucking break. No one in this shit hole can wipe their ass without some 1 percenter cock sucker getting even more rich doing nothing of value to society. I've heard Measles is making a come back. Imagine that shit. We championed immunization against this shit back in the 50s and 60s and just look at us now. Otherwise intelligent and, one might hope, educated citizens are drinking their own piss not because they don't have fresh water but because they bought into some bullshit that said it was good for you. Why? Because they've no idea how to fucking think rationally. Now there's real progress after walking on the goddamned Moon. M-O-O-N. That spells shit hole country destroyed by bankers and lawyers. 50th. I'm surprised we came out that well.

I could go on but contemplating the ultimate end of the country and society of my oh so cushy birth makes me depressed and angry.

[Meadmaker]

that ship has already sailed, imho.

(Stated in regards to democracy)

One of the biggest problems in America today is that people don't realize how good things are. We really do have democracy. It isn't perfect. Lots of room for improvement, but we basically have it. If we ever lose it, people will be dumbfounded when they actually lose their rights.

USA is 50th, not too far behind Peru and Argentina, according to this summary...

https://www.idea.int/gsod/2023/countries/

Do you take that seriously? I'm not sure of the state of Peruvian democracy these days. For all I know, it might be much more awesome than it was in recent times.

But.....I doubt it..

And the 50th raniking was under represenation. As far as rights go, that study puts us 28th, and everywhere above us seems like a fairly nice place to live. I don't know if Austrians actually have more rights than we do, but it very well could be. For my part, I feel pretty free in my day to day life.

[Meadmaker]

i shudder to think i'm praising Trump.

Maybe "praise" was too strong. Favorable comparison to Biden, with respect to militarism.

[arthwollipot]

It surprises me that anyone can think that America is a democracy. It isn't. America is a plutocracy wearing a democracy's shirt, and not a very clean one at that.

[Meadmaker]

It surprises me that anyone can think that America is a democracy. It isn't. America is a plutocracy wearing a democracy's shirt, and not a very clean one at that.

I would challenge you to show me any modern democracy that doesn't have elements of plutocracy in it. Here in America, the poor can rise to the top, though, and the rich aren't automatically able to gain political power. By any reasonable defininition of the word, we aren't plutocratic.

Barack Obama was not a rich man when he became a senator. By the time he became president, he had a best selling book abd a wife with a good salary that lifted him out of the middle class, but far from plutocrat levels. Bill Clinton grew up very poor, and was not very wealthy when he became president. (He had a fairly good living, thanks to his wife's earnings as a lawyer, and no mortgage payment.) Joe Biden became a senator when he had very little money. Alexandria Ocasio Cortes was barely above minimum wage when she got elected to Congress.

Come to think of it, if I go through all the presidents in my adult lifetime, beginning with Ronald Reagan, only Trump and the Bushes grew up with above average incomes.

Yes, money talks in America, but I;m pretty sure that's true everywhere else as well. Maybe it doesn't talk quite as much in Austria, or Australia, but it's really not so bad here.

[arthwollipot]

Here in America, the poor can rise to the top, though, and the rich aren't automatically able to gain political power.

True, anybody can get political power if they can raise enough money. The candidate with the biggest war chest wins. The money doesn't necessarily have to be your own, as long as you are charismatic enough to convince other people to give you theirs, but it is still necessary if you want to win. You can't win without it. You just can't. Money is what wins elections in America. That and gerrymandering. Money and gerrymandering are the two things that win elections in America. And disenfranchising minorities. Three. Three things that win elections in America...

Yes, money talks in America, but I;m pretty sure that's true everywhere else as well. Maybe it doesn't talk quite as much in Austria, or Australia, but it's really not so bad here.

Not nearly as much. Yes, politicians tend to come from high-paying professions like lawyers and bankers. And political parties still need to advertise. But the American campaign season for an election starts pretty much as soon as the previous election is over, whereas in Australia (for example) campaigning starts six weeks before. That means that the ad buys and corflutes are all concentrated into one relatively short period, and a constant incoming stream of money isn't as necessary.

In fact when people ostentatiously spend big during an election campaign, it is not seen as virtuous.

[President Bush]

What scares me is that Trump is the first person in my lifetime that I think could conceivably lead to dictatorship.

Doubt that will happen until maybe the third or fourth Trump term.