A very depressing video from Gaza

[Admin]

No hard evidence of these Hamas underground bunkers from the hospital, and you know Israel would have been trumpeting the story if it were true.

Even Bibi now admits they aren't minimising civilian deaths, while still claiming they're trying to.


Telling people to evacuate when they have no place to go and no means to get there isn't exactly minimisation.

[Meadmaker]

All the focus on whether or not Hamas was using the hospital is kind of bizarre to me. Israel believed Hamas was using it. Were they really? Why does it matter? So we can assess the quality of Israeli intelligence?

What we know, for certain, is that as the IDF tried to reach the hospital, they were being shot at.

The war is going on, and it is a live war, with two different military forces shooting at each other.

If the IDF actually launched a direct attack on the hospital, i.e. with an airstrike, with tank rounds, with things that would destroy the hospital building, and people and equipment inside of it, that would be something worth reporting, including whether or not the IDF were correct in their statements. However, the IDF didn't attack the hospital. They were fighting, including being shot at, in the vicinity of the hospital. At some point, they sent people inside. Was it "a command center"? There's no way to know. There's evidence that at one point, people with weapons were there. That means......something?

It means that even before October 7, Hamas, the governing body in the Gaza strip, had people and weapons all over the place. This included in civilian areas. Oh, wait. It's all civilian areas. It's not like there's a "Camp Saladdin" military training center somewhere in Gaza where Hamas trains. All their locations are in civilian areas. Including hospitals. Including al-Shifa? Probably. Why wouldn't they be there?

To me, what the media ought to be asking is, now that the Israelis are undisputably in charge of the al-Shifa hospital, what are they doing with it? Specifically, are they making any attempt to get it back in operation to care for the people who need medical treatment as a result of this war? Or even just people who need medical treatment, but are surrounded by war?

[Admin]

To me, what the media ought to be asking is, now that the Israelis are undisputably in charge of the al-Shifa hospital, what are they doing with it?

Getting it empty.They given the doctors given one hour to evacuate the hospital.

I'm sure they'll find somewhere to wheel the beds to in the next 45 minutes. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/ ... o-evacuate

I'm confident what they're doing rises to the level of war crime now.

And as to Israelies themselves, even relatives of those killed in the Hamas attack are saying Israel iswrong: https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023 ... want-peace

[sparks]

And are they?

[Admin]

And are they?

Wrong?

Absolutely. Their response is so far out of step with the rest of the world even Israel's most ardent supporter - USA - is doing more than raising eyebrows.

US President Joe Biden is under growing pressure to rein in Israel's military campaign against Hamas in Gaza.

The thousands of civilian casualties and desperate humanitarian conditions have alarmed Arab allies, but also stirred an extraordinary level of criticism from within his own administration.

"I'm stunned by the intensity," said Aaron David Miller, who worked as an adviser on Arab-Israeli relations during a 25 year tenure at the US State Department.

"I've never seen anything quite like this."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67453674

[Meadmaker]

Israel is denying they ordered the evacuation of al-Shifa, but the statements of the people who used to be inside seem pretty credible.

It seems the Israelis just might be lying.


In so many different contexts, I'm always surprised when people do things that are absolutely guaranteed to piss people of and make supporters desert them. There's no reason to evacuate that hospital at this point, so why do it? It seems so stupid that I wonder if there's some other explanation, but the available information suggests that the Israelis are just being assholes.

[President Bush]

Funny how that happens when far-right religious nationalists are at the wheel.

[stanky]

I've heard rumors that Israel would like to take 1/2 trillion bucks of fossil fuels from Gaza. Also there's supposedly a plan for an alternate canal (to the Suez) that would go through Gaza. There's some far right military factions that some think are capable of a false flag operation in the U.S. to get us to destroy Iran.

Bright future?

[Admin]

I've heard rumors that Israel would like to take 1/2 trillion bucks of fossil fuels from Gaza. Also there's supposedly a plan for an alternate canal (to the Suez) that would go through Gaza. There's some far right military factions that some think are capable of a false flag operation in the U.S. to get us to destroy Iran.

Bright future?

Are there any mad conspiracy theories about the situation you don't believe?

[arthwollipot]

Israel is committing atrocities, apparently, Such as......?

Here, this might help:

There have been five Israel-Gaza wars since 2008. These charts show the latest one is by far the deadliest