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The Pandemic Thread
(09-30-2021, 02:08 AM)The Atheist Wrote:  
(09-29-2021, 08:35 PM)stanky Wrote:  The reason I brought attention to this phenomena is because I saw it as an unusual move, by rather enlightened societies.
They decided not to ostracize the anti-vaxers; not to alienate them; not to piss them off.
To the point of abandoning what could be seen as a saner direction.
The unwashed masses in Norway, for instance, are free to mingle; free to travel, with no need for the vaccine.
The power structure is still advising vaccines, but it's optional. You won't lose your job if you don't have the shots.
Big risk for the rest of them, but deemed worth it.

I think it's a smart plan.

It may cost a small number of vaccinated lives, but it will cost 20 times more unvaccinated lives.

Yeah. Glad we can agree on some stuff.
I tend to see this stuff as math. That it often overlaps with jesusy stuff is an ironic coincidence. Especially now that the Jesus stuff has been co-opted by the haters of math and, ironically, Jesus.

We've dug through this over the years, and so far, no one here is opposed to the basic philosophy in the gospels.
Even though we're all hard core atheists.

(09-30-2021, 01:36 PM)stanky Wrote:  These days, I avoid hugging.

Other than Mrs A, there is one person I hug. My daughter. And only because she initiates it. She tries so hard to get me to tell her I love her it gets quite funny.

She knows me pretty well, and more importantly, knows how I think.

(09-30-2021, 01:47 PM)stanky Wrote:  I tend to see this stuff as math.

Fuck me, I've been screaming that for so many years I'm surprised I have a voice or fingers left.

I see the most amazing "AI" analyses of all sorts of irrelevant shit. Google and Facebook's AI work superbly. At getting people to spend money or join antivax groups...

We have so much data, and so much analytical ability, that not using it almost becomes a crime against humanity.

(09-30-2021, 01:47 PM)stanky Wrote:  We've dug through this over the years, and so far, no one here is opposed to the basic philosophy in the gospels.
Even though we're all hard core atheists.


Proof that christians are selfish, deluded cunts.
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
Some very good news about the pandemic: Merck has stopped a trial of an experimental antiviral drug.

Why is that good news?

Because it's so effective, continuing the trial would cost thousands of lives - 50% reduction in hospitalisation and death by Covid.
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.

In the link I made above, regarding the countries that chose to lift the restrictions, I don't believe it was because they thought it was safe to do so, because of their high vaccine rates...i think they did it because the price of restrictions potentially exceeds the price of some deaths.
Even if it's only 20% unwilling to get the shots, you don't want those people itching to rumble with authority.

All of the points made about the  'tactics' taken by different authorities shouldn't be looked at only from the medical science, or economic science, but must include as always, political science.
And it's not the politicians who are 100% to blame, they are like bloody dogs, they react to the slightest flicker of body language to ensure they get a treat, and they are not basing, as they claim, on "health advice" they base their decisions on algorithms of social media assent, or resentment and then tell the Chief Health Officers what to 'advise'.
Damn, I'll be back I hear a stove top emergency brewing.

It's intriguing to watch, and damned disappointing in many ways, the reactions of the public in Oz.
So many go along with being locked down as they really do believe it's "keeping them safe".

There's a competition on based on the death rate.  Cynical much?  But the competition is between the populations of the states, their Premiers have all had elections looming during the pandemic so every move they've made with respect to the pandemic has been based on the science of reading public opinion.

The Labor led states have been adamantly pro lock down.
The Conservative led ones 3 have varied across the board.
S.A. is smack between 3 Labor states and has been as nervous as them to lock the state down in a heartbeat.
They have a piss poor health infrastructure, haven't felt the need for one and got caught short.

Tassie is an island. Too tempting to do other than close the ports and airports, put their feet up and let the mainland ride it out.
They also are way short on the hospital capacity space for an outbreak.

NSW is the odd one out.  We do have a fairly/comparatively up to speed hospital capacity, but the demographic is somehow different.   We are not as interested in the death score of the day as the 'lockdown' states for some reason.
We're quick to point at Victoria's but don't fret about our own.  
The priority in NSW is saving the furniture, rather than ourselves.  I don't know if it's a 'disconnect' or pure pragmatism, but it's the only state that kept all it's borders open, and kept the most percentage of it's  people employed.

We had outbreaks and lock downs but regionally. Contained within specific zones, we didn't just put the whole state in the freezer!  

NSW has an outbreak now, biggest ever as has Victoria, and unstoppable so what did the people want?
In Vic they wanted to be treated to solitary confinement. In NSW we're opening up! 
And the people are perfectly okay with it!  The majority anyway.

There will be sensible, liveable, restrictions. Masks, distancing, crowd limits, some venues still closed for a few weeks more, but travel restrictions are broadened.

Most significantly, and probably the reason we're not getting the 'desperation protests' is that dates, and vax rates have been set as the goals and people can see the goalposts!  

Some restrictions will lift at 70% , already long passed, most of the rest at 80%  and just about all, including masks in most, but not all, places...  at 80% double vaxxed.  Those goals are within days, and weeks.
Vaccination percentage, NOT death percentages are the driving factor in NSW and ... it's working!  
Some of the worst hit areas (majority migrant settled suburbs) had serious 'vaccine hesitancy' issues and they were sitting ducks in densely populated high rises.

There 'cultural' issues were addressed, the government worked with their leaders, got them on board and the result has been amazing.  
From the lowest rate of vax a few months ago, now those areas are approaching unbelievable figures of 90% plus DOUBLE vaxxed. 

They're leaving us in their dust, which has had the beneficial effect of spurring the undecided on to get theirs asap  too.  win/win.

In Victoria, those 'hesitant' (NOT  anti-vax, that's a different species) are being vilified, not encouraged.
 Every time their lockdown goes titsup the Premier wags his finger and blames "the selfish, thoughtless, rule breakers" and passes tougher 'rules' to tighten everybody's straightjackets to 'punish' the few.  Resentment thrives on that!

Vics 'roadmap' to "freedoms" (only some, mind you) is months behind NSW.  So is their rate of vaccination.
Melbourne now holds the record for Most locked down City in the World.   Not more than 2 years back it was in the top 5 Most Liveable Cities list.   Some comedown!!

Now comes the question that may be the key to the success or failure of various strategies.

Does the strategy lead, or follow the mood of the public?   Or, as in Victoria's case, force/extort/oppress their mood?

Scared people will give up their 'freedom' for safety but there's a good quote for that attitude.

"Those who trade liberty for security have neither. John Adams."

Never a truer sentence spoken!  For their sacrifice of 'freedoms' and the severity of the 'rules' they exist under down there, their death rate has surpassed that of Sydney in shorter time and while Sydney's is dropping, Melbourne's is still rising rapidly!  Is it any wonder there are protests down there?
Oh and he's just made vax mandatory for most occupations. but that is so he can hold power over them for a bit longer, with Dan, it's allll about the power!  He's an ogre.

We in NSW will be free to travel anywhere in the world by early December and will be accepting flights from foreign parts with only a weeks quarantine for some depending on what they're vaxxed with
BUT  we can't travel to states we share borders with in our own Country!!

How ridiculous is that?   They can cross into NSW but if they do,  they can't go home!
wow eh?.

sorry to ramble about this but I'm still getting my head around how fucking thick Aussies get when they go 'rah rah team!'

Oh and just to settle the issue about who has the biggest circus... the Premier of NSW, who has the best form in all aspects of handling Covid, economically, medically, and politically, has had to resign over an accusation that she knew her old  boyfriend was involved in a dodgy deal years ago.

Is it any wonder that politicians are such shitheads when the very best of them is rewarded with having her career trashed on an unproven, uncharged, and untried accusation not of corruption, but failing to report it!
Yet  those other Premiers, with form that would embarrass Al Capone, brush off all accusations and 'play' the media, the public, and the judiciary.

America doesn't have the only swamp!

Shit I'm furious about 'Gladys' doing the right thing and resigning rather than disrupt the attention from NSW's planned emergence back into the 'Covid normal' world.  She must be the last polly who even knows that there is a right thing to do.

If the others 'did the right thing' they'd book themselves permanent accommodation in Pentridge and Wacol!

(allegedly) CoolAngel
(10-01-2021, 10:58 PM)Di Wundrin Wrote:  Most significantly, and probably the reason we're not getting the 'desperation protests' is that dates, and vax rates have been set as the goals and people can see the goalposts!

That's where Jacinda has finally got out of her depth.

I predicted in a letter to our experts and politicians some months ago that we'd let the virus get in front of us, and that we were dooming ourselves to the worst of all worlds - a load of deaths, hospitals crushed, economy destroyed, and non-Covid health concerns, including mental health, being ruined for tens of thousands of people.

And thus it has come to pass.

We're seven weeks into lockdown, vaccination has stalled at 70% and we're now seeing Melbourne-scale protests.

Ho hum.

The dumb bitch is so far out of her depth it's frightening, and I'm sure she's going to keep walking the same failed path. Someone said something about that once. George Santayana, 116 years ago.
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
A quirk of the pandemic that might well be the sound of 20 trillion pigeons coming home to roost...

Central banks have created the perfect asset bubble by creating loans at zero interest. It's also created inflationary pressure.

Covid has added a layer of complexity, resulting in supply-chain issues, just as the surge of delta has coincided with a surge in fuel prices.

And voila! We have stagflation peering around the corner, mask slipping off its nostrils.
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
I care deeply.
And simultaneously don't care at all.

Is that legal?
Perfectly normal stank. I care deeply myself. But I also realize that there's no way in hell I can make a difference.

We live with it.
You can lead 'em to knowledge, but you can't make 'em think.
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"We're all here 'cause we're not all there..."

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