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The Pandemic Thread
You're contradicting yourself, mate.
Illustrative of the overall confusion.

Like I mentioned, it's a work in progress. We're figuring this stuff out, on the fly.
It's a shame that political and profit motives have influence.

The vaccines could have been made 'open source' some time ago; available to the poorest nations without strings. Bill Gates, strangely, fought against that, with his considerable clout and investments. Big charity is some of the scamiest shit ever.
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(09-28-2021, 11:09 PM)stanky Wrote:  You're contradicting yourself, mate.

Where?

(09-28-2021, 11:09 PM)stanky Wrote:  The vaccines could have been made 'open source' some time ago; available to the poorest nations without strings. Bill Gates, strangely, fought against that, with his considerable clout and investments. Big charity is some of the scamiest shit ever.

Bill Gates had nothing to do with it - he has no control over it at all, and USA actually pushed for the patents to be waived.

The EU and UK stopped it happening, and whatever influence Gates might have in America, he has none over there.
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
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(09-29-2021, 02:05 AM)The Atheist Wrote:  
(09-28-2021, 11:09 PM)stanky Wrote:  You're contradicting yourself, mate.

Where?


(09-28-2021, 11:09 PM)stanky Wrote:  The vaccines could have been made 'open source' some time ago; available to the poorest nations without strings. Bill Gates, strangely, fought against that, with his considerable clout and investments. Big charity is some of the scamiest shit ever.

Bill Gates had nothing to do with it - he has no control over it at all, and USA actually pushed for the patents to be waived.

The EU and UK stopped it happening, and whatever influence Gates might have in America, he has none over there.

You wrote that this type of virus will be with us for keeps; no herd immunity; etc, but then go on to describe how we could have stopped it.
Perhaps I misinterpreted you.

In a recent study in Israel, printed in a recent issue of "Science", a prior covid-19 infection (pre delta variant) offers better protection than the vaccines we have now. Fauci did not refute this.

As both of us have mentioned, we're learning as we go.
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There will be no eradicating the virus. As with them all, they are still out there and always will be.

However, if appropriate steps are taken such as (perhaps) annual vaccination and other precautions as necessary, then it need not pose a threat to large groups of people.

If those steps are not taken by large populations, then all hell will break loose.

It's not terribly complicated.

I think what TA is saying is that we could have stopped the mass infections and deaths that have occurred. Not the virus itself. As previously noted, it will always be with us. You can't sterilize an entire planet of specific bugs.
You can lead 'em to knowledge, but you can't make 'em think.
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(09-29-2021, 05:02 PM)stanky Wrote:  You wrote that this type of virus will be with us for keeps; no herd immunity; etc, but then go on to describe how we could have stopped it.
Perhaps I misinterpreted you.

Probably just not clear enough.

In the early stages, we could have stopped it, but it would have required a co0ordinated effort from all governments. Once it became a pandemic, it was too late, which is just back to those numbers. Once the virus reaches hundreds of thousands of people, the horse has bolted.

(09-29-2021, 05:02 PM)stanky Wrote:  In a recent study in Israel, printed in a recent issue of "Science", a prior covid-19 infection (pre delta variant) offers better protection than the vaccines we have now. Fauci did not refute this.

That's to be expected, because of the enormous difference in amount of virus the body is dealing with. Vaccines stimulate the immune system, but when you have the virus there are trillions of the little cunts swarming around your body, and if you fight it off, your immune system is better-equipped than from a vaccine.

This is why I'm trying to find out what happens when a vaccinated person gets a mild dose, as usually happens. According to my theory, if that happens, you should just about be permanently immune to Covid. Very limited data right now, so the jury's out.
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
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Yeah. I think we all agree on that. We could have stopped it. Oops.
We could have prevented climate change. Deforestation. Radioactive waste..all of it.

In the link I made above, regarding the countries that chose to lift the restrictions, I don't believe it was because they thought it was safe to do so, because of their high vaccine rates...i think they did it because the price of restrictions potentially exceeds the price of some deaths.
Even if it's only 20% unwilling to get the shots, you don't want those people itching to rumble with authority.

The reason I brought attention to this phenomena is because I saw it as an unusual move, by rather enlightened societies.
They decided not to ostracize the anti-vaxers; not to alienate them; not to piss them off.
To the point of abandoning what could be seen as a saner direction.
The unwashed masses in Norway, for instance, are free to mingle; free to travel, with no need for the vaccine.
The power structure is still advising vaccines, but it's optional. You won't lose your job if you don't have the shots.
Big risk for the rest of them, but deemed worth it.

If the U.S. was this clever, it would take the fight out of the angry, paranoid people. They'd be far likelier to get the vaccine if it was ok not to.
They'd be far less likely to be aggressively defensive.
It would be analogous to if we had let hippies (and black jazz musicians) smoke weed, back in the 60's...instead of busting them and throwing them in jail...where they learn how to hate the bastards that put them there...and learn about being a criminal, from a school of criminals. They'll tell you what they fucked up. Suggest alternatives.

The only horse i have in the race here, is the one that's out of the box.
We're all little chickens, trying to peck our way out of a cube-shaped egg.
It's too easy; the structure is inherently weak. Our cube shaped eggs break before we can even hatch.

A more spherical shape might be good.
The metaphor can be expanded.

The harsh facts of the experiments, is that most will fail. Science knows this.
If you aren't failing, it's like you aren't even trying.
And if you aren't trying, then there is no progress.

I'd say we've reached a point where we may as well be bold.
Two-way street, of course. Time to storm the capitol; rob that bank...willing to die for the cause.
What cause? That's never much mattered.

Morality clouds our minds. It's the first propaganda. It trashes our creativity. It disables strategy and decency.
I'm not a Nazi.
But I can imagine what it must have been like for Nazi soldiers. They bravely gave their lives in service to their nation. I'm sure there were plenty of heroic Nazis, that dragged their wounded comrade to safety. All that good shit.
How does history portray them? There were no good Nazi soldiers. So many dead and pathetic chumps; doing what they were forced to do; not real sophisticated kids. Christ, there's an underlying tragedy, eh?

I had friends that were forced to go to Vietnam and do the sick bidding of their government. They didn't want to. They had no understanding of the conflict. They had trouble focusing on the enemy. The gooks weren't gassing Jews. They were peasants, trying to get by. We decided to kill a few million of them,and poison their ecosystems, mostly to sell weapons and have access to the cheap drugs. We lost 50,000 or so in that undeclared war against communism; that we didn't win. Stunning stat on the Nam' vets: More die by suicide than by the war they fought.
Still going on. Hard to save face. Bad withdrawal from Afghanistan; trillions spent; lots of life lost; land fucked-up; the usual...imagine being one of the chumps in that war; I mean one of our heroes that served the nation; our best and brightest; blah blah...
How are they supposed to feel now? Proud? Or really angry? Suicidaly depressed? Addicted to drugs? Our last room mate was a combat vet from the Iraq war. He's a hot mess, bless his heart. Unclear what we gained from that war. Quite clear what some people gained.
Can people really be this nasty? For personal gain? Yes. They can.

It makes perfect sense from the perspective of the people (corporations) that profit mightily from gigantic wastes of money.
It seems ghastly. Could we have actually, and inadvertently, created the perfect petri-dish for the rise of the sociopaths?

And that's why this rant isn't off topic.

Our on-going social experiment is analogous to the mutations of a virus.
Not all viruses are bad. Most are not. There's a shit-ton of them out there.
I've recently read about some beneficial viruses. You don't hear much about them. All viruses are like filthy Jews. They need the auto-clave of sterilization. Except, maybe not?

Apologies for the rant, folks. I gots to unload when the spirit moves me. Only Di is obligated to read this post.The rest of you? At ease.
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(09-29-2021, 08:35 PM)stanky Wrote:  The reason I brought attention to this phenomena is because I saw it as an unusual move, by rather enlightened societies.
They decided not to ostracize the anti-vaxers; not to alienate them; not to piss them off.
To the point of abandoning what could be seen as a saner direction.
The unwashed masses in Norway, for instance, are free to mingle; free to travel, with no need for the vaccine.
The power structure is still advising vaccines, but it's optional. You won't lose your job if you don't have the shots.
Big risk for the rest of them, but deemed worth it.

I think it's a smart plan.

It may cost a small number of vaccinated lives, but it will cost 20 times more unvaccinated lives.
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
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(09-29-2021, 08:35 PM)stanky Wrote:  Apologies for the rant, folks. I gots to unload when the spirit moves me. Only Di is obligated to read this post.The rest of you? At ease.

Rant away, both of you.
"We're all here 'cause we're not all there..."
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This has me curling my lip at the stupidity and wastefulness of it all.

Our government has allowed housing to get to a state where thousands of Kiwis are living in hotels and motels because there are no houses for them.

Our government also allowed it own hubris to allow travel from Australia.

Thanks to the Australian travel, Covid snuck back into the country.

And has been impossible to stamp out because it got into the emergency housing sector.

The deepest irony ever: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300419277/lessons-to-be-learnt-from-covid19-hitting-aucklands-most-vulnerable--experts
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
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(09-30-2021, 05:28 AM)grayman Wrote:  
(09-29-2021, 08:35 PM)stanky Wrote:  Apologies for the rant, folks. I gots to unload when the spirit moves me. Only Di is obligated to read this post.The rest of you? At ease.

Rant away, both of you.

You're a dear sweet human, grayman.
Please tell your wife i said so, in case she occasionally forgets.
I like her too. Despite her making us hug and turning us gay.
Did you notice that she didn't insist on hugging me, too?
If she had, that might have neutralized all the homoerotic vibes of that moment.

These days, I avoid hugging. Yet, the only time hugs are requested, are from guys.
I wish i was gay.
I kind-of wish I was a lesbian, frankly.
I have soft skin, but i refuse to shave.
Tricky trying to fit in these days.
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