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The all new Trump thread!
#71
Thanks for the capitulation Pres.  

I'd have liked to have had your take on how to build a Great America but never mind, I respect your limitations.Big GrinRolleyes
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#72
I have no take on how to build a Great America except maybe as a pirate utopia. Like the fictional (?) Libertatia in 17th century Madagascar...

Quote:Captain Mission was one of the forbears of the French Revolution. He was one hundred years in advance of his time, for his career was based upon an initial desire to better adjust the affairs of mankind, which ended as is quite usual in the more liberal adjustment of his own fortunes. It is related how Captain Mission, having led his ship to victory against an English man-of-war, called a meeting of the crew. Those who wished to follow him he would welcome and treat as brothers; those who did not would be safely set ashore. One and all embraced the New Freedom. Some were hoisting the Black Flag at once but Mission demurred, saying that they were not pirates but liberty lovers, fighting for equal rights against all nations subject to the tyranny of government, and bespoke a white flag as the more fitting emblem. The ship's money was put in a chest to be used as common property. Clothes were now distributed to all in need and the republic of the sea was in full operation.

Mission bespoke them to live in strict harmony among themselves; that a misplaced society would adjudge them still as pirates. Self-preservation, therefore, and not a cruel disposition, compelled them to declare war on all nations who should close their ports to them. "I declare such a war and at the same time recommend to you a humane and generous behavior towards your prisoners, which will appear by so much more the effects of a noble soul as we are satisfied we should not meet the same treatment should our ill fortune or want of courage give us up to their mercy..." The Nieustadt of Amsterdamn was made prize, giving up two thousand pounds and gold dust and seventeen slaves. The slaves were added to the crew and clothed in the Dutchman's spare garments; Mission made an address denouncing slavery, holding that men who sold others like beasts proved their religion to be no more than a grimace as no man had power of liberty over another..."

Mission explored the Madagascar coast and found a bay ten leagues north of DiИgo-Suarez. It was resolved to establish here the shore quarters of the Republic - erect a town, build docks, and have a place they might call their own. The colony was called Libertatia and was placed under Articles drawn up by Captain Mission. The Articles state, among other things:

All decisions with regard to the colony to be submitted to vote by the colonists; the abolition of slavery for any reason including debt; the abolition of the death penalty; and freedom to follow any religious beliefs or practices without sanction or molestation.

Captain Mission's colony, which numbered about three hundred, was wiped out by a surprise attack from the natives, and Captain Mission was killed shortly afterwards in a sea battle. There were other such colonies in the West Indies and in Central and South America, but they were not able to maintain themselves since they were not sufficiently populous to withstand attack. Had they been able to do so, the history of the world could have been altered. Imagine a number of such fortified positions all through South America and the West Indies, stretching from Africa to Madagascar and Malaya and the East Indies, all offering refuge to fugitives from slavery and oppression: "Come to us and live under the Articles."

At once we have allies in all those who are enslaved and oppressed throughout the world, from the cotton plantations of the American South to the sugar plantations of the West Indies, the whole Indian population of the Amreican continent peonized and degraded by the Spanish into subhuman poverty and ignorance, exterminated by the Americans, infected with their vices and diseases, the natives of Africa and Asia - all these are potential allies. Fortified positions supported by and supporting guerilla hit-and-run bands; supplied with soldiers, weapons, medicines and information by the local populations... such a combination would be unbeatable. If the whole American army couldn't beat the Viet Cong at a time when fortified positions were rendered obsolete by artillery and air strikes, certainly the armies of Europe, operating in unfamiliar territory and susceptile to all the disabling diseases of tropical countries, could not have beaten guerrilla tactics plus fortified positions. Consider the difficulties which such an invading army would face: continual harassment from the guerrillas, a totally hostile population always ready with poison, misdirection, snakes and spiders in the general's bed, armadillos carrying the deadly earth-eating disease rooting under the barracks and adopted as mascots by the regiment as dysentery and malaria take their toll. The sieges could not but present a series of military disasters. There is no stopping the Articulated. The white man is retroactively relieved of his burden. Whites will be welcomed as workers, settlers, teachers, and technicians, but not as colonists or masters. No man may violate the Articles.

Under the Black Flag by Don CSeitz
Ask not what is the problem but, rather, where is the lesion.
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#73
It's already a pirate utopia isn't it?  I thought that was what the fuss was all about?  Wanting a change of pirates or something?  Rolleyes Huh

Those 'articles' are a fine standard to hold, but that's the rub isn't it?  they can't be held.
Not against a more power motivated force.  And humans lurrrrve power.

The 'articles' are pretty much what an old forum sparring partner espoused, he was a small 'a' anarchist,    and we'd argue for weeks over how to ensure his ideal society could survive in the 'real' world with more than 20 people in the group.  I don't think we ever really finished that ongoing argument although both could see the other's points in it.


I of course was devil's advocate although I have no dissent with the 'dream/idyll' itself. As long as it's recognised as such. 
It's when the notions outlined become laws to be enforced that the whole concept goes titsup.

It just doesn't work when the population gets beyond a very small community.  As soon someone is 'put in charge' of keeping tabs on the rule breakers then communal consent becomes redundant.  They find themselves with a 'sheriff' in town. 
But that's just my view. 
His was that the world should agree that civilization should fragment into those smaller groups to keep the system workable.  ...and so the argument rolled...

  Shame he wasn't to be found when this forum kicked off, he would have fitted right in, he was an excellent jouster and banterer.   But he seemed to disappear from all known haunts at once so I presume he died.  Pity.  I bet he'd have read that book with relish,  right up his street. Smile
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#74
From what I understand Seitz's book documented, perhaps romanticized, already existing legend.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertatia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_General_History_of_the_Pyrates
Ask not what is the problem but, rather, where is the lesion.
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#75
Fiction forms into fact, not unlike the images we have of Knights drawn from the tales of Camelot.

A whole world is built around the imagined characters. Sounds familiar somehow.
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#76
We're back north of Tucson again... appropriate to think like you're in Mexico here where one's apt to lend descriptive titles. Smoked some marijuana and un apodo for trump came to mind.

El Hueco ie "the Void".
Ask not what is the problem but, rather, where is the lesion.
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#77
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/22/attorney-heading-up-trump-recount-wants-throw-out-his-own-vote/6382647002/

Quote:The attorney leading President Donald Trump’s recount effort in Wisconsin voted illegally according to his own legal argument that in-person absentee ballots should be thrown out. So did his wife.

Jim Troupis, a former Dane County judge and Cross Plains attorney who is representing the Trump campaign, would not answer questions about why he and his wife voted that way.

Troupis and his wife voted early using the state's in-person absentee option — one of a group of voters whose ballots the Trump campaign has asked election officials to deem illegal.
Ask not what is the problem but, rather, where is the lesion.
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#78
That 'own goal' thing happens a lot down here. They keep wedging themselves with hilarious regularity.

The Labor shadow AG is always cooking up legal plots to catch out the Consos and so far every one of them has caught out someone in his own Party.

His nickname now is Wiley Coyote, everything blows up in his face. Good to see your legal eagles are prone to the same syndrome.

The circus rolls on, if it wasn't for these dollops of irony nobody would buy tickets.

...there's an idea....
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#79
More of an ironic reversal than an auto goal... there was nothing seen wrong with this sort of in-person absentee voting until trump lost
Ask not what is the problem but, rather, where is the lesion.
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#80
It was never done in such numbers before though. He was flagging it as a contentious issue so no surprise he's using it to 'poison the chalice'.

I recall Hillary telling Joe "never concede under any circumstances"... but Trump must, and fast!??
The DNC had a battalion of lawyers locked and loaded to launch the same kind of bullshit that Trump's are throwing.

It's politics, it's mud wrestling rules and the colours of the clowns are interchangeable. It's the voters who get emotionally involved with it, not the players.
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