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The charade of democracy in the U.S.
#1
The election process in my nation is beyond the pale.
Our choice comes down to two corporate owned right wing candidates. Biden and Trump.
Both are very right-wing pawns of corporate power.
Both are old, very old; very senile; very corrupt.

This is the best we can come up with?

This is the death throws of empire.
Our leadership is beyond corrupt.
It's obscene.

Our vote is a joke.

Imho, it's high time to boycott the voting process entirely. 
Don't vote.
It's a bad joke.
Send a message.
Don't vote.
It's a farce.

Doesn't mean we can't have an effect on how things go.
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#2
Yea, but isn't refusing to vote just about equivalent with giving them tacit permission to do what ever the fuck they want?
You can lead 'em to knowledge, but you can't make 'em think.
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#3
(06-24-2020, 10:03 AM)stanky Wrote:  Send a message.
Don't vote.

Unfortunately, that message will be received, as Sparks rightly notes, as "Voters don't give a fuck - do what you like."

Given that capital C conservatives will always vote, not voting only serves to reduce the progressive vote.

A much better plan is to get all progressives and minorities to vote and throw the old faces out. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ritchie-torres-wins-new-york-democratic-primary-15th-congressional-district_n_5ef2713bc5b609fdb728b767
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
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#4
Faith in the process is quaint.
But it's never what brings change.

Protests; boycotts; support...that's your vote.
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#5
(06-25-2020, 08:30 AM)stanky Wrote:  Faith in the process is quaint.
But it's never what brings change.

Wrong.

Germany is but one example of democratic change. There are plenty of others, and as always, I'm going to raise NZ as a pure example. We voted in a genuine Socialist government (surprisingly led by an Australian) in 1935, which ushered in the welfare state, a program that's been replicated in most of the enlightened countries around the world.

(06-25-2020, 08:30 AM)stanky Wrote:  Protests; boycotts; support...that's your vote.

Bollocks. That's what Russians thought when they protested against Gorbachev, and it resulted in Putin's kleptocracy. And they even had the example of what happened in 1919 but still made the same idiot mistake. You can go all the way back to the French Revolution to see what protests get you - a megalomaniac running the place.

Take South Africa - the protests and boycotts meant fuck all until a moderately liberal government was elected and while history doesn't give F W de Klerk much credit for the end of Apartheid, had he not dismantled it, Nelson Mandela would have died on Robben Island.

Like it or not, the ballot is still the best mechanism for change.

As the greatest orator of all time once said:

Quote:Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.

W S Churchill, 11 November 1947
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
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#6
I think the things you just mentioned, protests, boycotts, support, are effective but have to disagree with you stank that voting is ineffective. Just look at Mango! If all them good Chreeeeeeeestians hadn't voted, we'd be bitching about Hilary right now instead of him. Smile
You can lead 'em to knowledge, but you can't make 'em think.
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#7
At the risk of being disagreed with (that's okay btw, I'm used to it.)

It's not just voting that is vital but understanding exactly what you're voting FOR!

Judging from the vacuously ignorant statements being made here about historical figures and events, and explanations of preferred 'policies', I'm betting the house on only a very small percentage of those demanding change having any clue at all about what they want to change TO.

Nailed it Sparky!
" If all them good Chreeeeeeeestians hadn't voted, we'd be bitching about Hilary right now instead of him "
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#8
(06-25-2020, 02:27 PM)The Atheist Wrote:  
(06-25-2020, 08:30 AM)stanky Wrote:  Faith in the process is quaint.
But it's never what brings change.

Wrong.

Germany is but one example of democratic change. There are plenty of others, and as always, I'm going to raise NZ as a pure example. We voted in a genuine Socialist government (surprisingly led by an Australian) in 1935, which ushered in the welfare state, a program that's been replicated in most of the enlightened countries around the world.


(06-25-2020, 08:30 AM)stanky Wrote:  Protests; boycotts; support...that's your vote.

Bollocks. That's what Russians thought when they protested against Gorbachev, and it resulted in Putin's kleptocracy. And they even had the example of what happened in 1919 but still made the same idiot mistake. You can go all the way back to the French Revolution to see what protests get you - a megalomaniac running the place.

Take South Africa - the protests and boycotts meant fuck all until a moderately liberal government was elected and while history doesn't give F W de Klerk much credit for the end of Apartheid, had he not dismantled it, Nelson Mandela would have died on Robben Island.

Like it or not, the ballot is still the best mechanism for change.

As the greatest orator of all time once said:


Quote:Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.

W S Churchill, 11 November 1947

Churchill was a racist prick, but ok.
The change you mention comes up from below. The streets.
Politicians then read the news, and do what they must.
Power remains the same. As it always is.

Up here, we're still struggling with our Civil War.
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#9
Churchill was a prick. (To Australians and probably Kiwis) but fucked if I can recall the racist element. Must have missed that one.
Apparently fighting Hitler wasn't enough proof to "Anti Fascists" that he too was an anti-fascist??

Does anyone know what these Ninjas are really about?? Aside from the admissions of a few of their organisers that they're Marxists?

Told yas Antifa were a commo outfit years ago but noooo, they were just good guys fighting for the rights of their fellow man and I was just wrong as usual.[Image: yellow-laughing-smiley-emoticon.gif]
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#10
(06-26-2020, 05:51 AM)Di Wundrin Wrote:  Told yas Antifa were a commo outfit years ago but noooo, they were just good guys fighting for the rights of their fellow man and I was just wrong as usual.

You still are.

A small percentage conform to what you're saying. Even better, there's now solid evidence that many "antifa" crimes have actually been perpetrated by alt-rights playing to your crowd.
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
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