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warriors in spite of hopelessness
#1
Boyan Slat is a good start for this thread.
(He's the young guy that's tackling the ocean plastic.)

Joe Rogan interviewed him today. If you can only spare a minute of this, it will be interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whRVyywTov4

He's not in the least delusional. That's always refreshing.
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#2
here's an opinion i have; come to the hard way, that i think might be true:

In designing a system, begin with the waste disposal.
Even in a city apartment, you need to plan for the disposal of the old couch when you get the new one.
Last thing you want is to have your space all cluttered up with shit.
It's super easy to get free nice couches, btw. In some neighbor hoods, people will pay you to take their couch.
So the shit has a way of building up and fucking up the flow. You start tripping over it. Especially if you have kids.
Modern adults give kids insane amounts of stuff. I guess they have to. I can feel them out there right now, at the all-night Walmart, buying that stuff for their kids.

It's a strange relationship. Victims on both sides.

Being nomadic must have been pretty swell in terms of how much crap you had to deal with. You had to carry it. That gave rise to birth control. Can't afford to carry a mess of babies.

Anyway, i hate stuff. I hate shuffling it, to and fro.
There's too much of it, and most of it is butt-ugly.

There's at least 500 million tons of it floating on the ocean.

The cost of gathering it in the ocean is so great, even though we should try, it sends the message up-stream...like, maybe we should cut this off at the pass? That would be the logical thing, assuming we were committed to getting garbage out of the ocean, and we had to pay for that.
Overnight (almost) the purveyors of the disposable crap would design a different system. Plastic crap would become a commodity. You could sell it. It would be made into new plastic crap. (this is happening in Haiti, btw. Helps to be dirt poor if you want to prove that plastic crap has enough value to gather and schlepp to the factory.
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#3
In the link above, Boyan talks about the rivers...and how much easier it is to gather the plastic there, as opposed to the ocean.
And the rivers are the conduit for the crap to get to the ocean.
He said, iirc, that ten rivers are responsible for 80% of the incoming plastic crap.
They were small rivers that bordered huge, poor cities. It's stunning to see.

When you look at it as litter, which it is, you have to wonder who the litter bug is.
I would suggest that it's the industries that profited by avoiding the cost of disposal.
And they should pay for the clean up, as much as possible, while also creating a more sane model.
It's rather tragic that we've always known how to do this. Throwing tons of shit out only came into vogue when i was a kid. And it was pretty low key then. There just wasn't a lot of garbage.
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#4
I wish him the best of luck.

However...


The key here is not to sweep the Ocean of plastic. it's to stop dumping the shit in the Ocean in the first place. And unless and until the stupid fuckers who make this shit are held accountable for all of it, that will never fucking happen.

These stupid fuckers have to live here too goddamnit.

Shit. We all think that as long as it's not in my back yard, everything will remain just fucking great. But at this late stage we begin to see that the Earth is in fact a finite space and that we can indeed fuck it up beyond all hope.

WTF... we already have.

So why am I ranting? Goddamnit!!!
You can lead 'em to knowledge, but you can't make 'em think.
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#5
In the interview, they go into that issue. It's pretty interesting.
For instance, there's the notion that if people think that there's a system that gathers plastic from the water, then it's ok to keep tossing it in there.

In a way, what this genius kid is up to, is meant to embarrass the upstream flow.
Obviously, we need to stop putting plastic into the ocean. Who disagrees with that?
Nobody.
So why is it still happening?

Here's an apt analogy for what i think Boyan Slat is up too:

He's the little old lady, quietly sweeping up the mess you made last night. And when the little old lady isn't judgmental about her task, it reflects the onus back on the perpetrator. Or, it should.
But it won't, of course, because people are dicks.

We should be allowed to pick up a single plastic bottle from the ocean; analyse where it came from and all the corporations involved in profiting from the fact that they co-designed a system wherein they cheated, by way of skipping the disposal aspect, and fine them all for littering.
It's a 'theft of services" violation.

After we buy the stuff, we have to pay to dispose of it. You'd think that would be on the price tag of the product.

Hilarious that his device gathered its first two shipping containers of crap recently, and to help fund the project, that gathered ocean plastic is being made into more plastic crap...that people will pay for.
This first batch of harvested ocean plastic will be a collector's item. The stars will pay hundreds of dollars for a pair of flip-flops made from that historic harvest.
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#6
A common occurrence when I was living in Massachusetts after leaving Wyoming: I would be up early having coffee and the trash truck would stop at the end of the driveway.  

I would watch as he would dump the contents of the trash bin into the back of the vehicle to be compacted, then he would walk over to the recyclable bins and dump in their contents as well.

So much for trying to be earth-friendly when the corporations are that brazen about ignoring the attempt.
"as the pope, i nominate grayman for sainthood.." - stanky
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#7
In the poor cities that spew the most plastic into rivers, there isn't even the pretense of garbage collection.
There is no disposal plan.
Hence, the rivers do the task.

Imagine if your garbage man simply dumped the bins directly into the river or ocean?
How appalling would that be?

As things are designed, most of us have no clue, or any interest, in what happens with our waste, after it is removed from sight. With a monthly bill. Why should we? We trust that they know what they're doing. Same when we flush the toilet...it goes away somewhere. We don't have to track it journey.

Living in very rural settings, one is confronted with these issues. No one is coming for the trash.
No one is dealing with the poo. It doesn't magically disappear.
So you have to confront it. Deal with it. Work it in.

I don't mean to romanticize hillbilly life. For the most part, the tradition, regarding the lack of garbage disposal, is to toss your crap off a cliff.
And shit wherever.

Enter the hippies, god help us.
They tend to bring new concepts into the hills.
And that's pretty obnoxious.

It's a tricky zone.
Hey! Look at me, you in-breed fucks! I have my shit together! Literally! I know where it is and what it's doing.
That's the last thing i would say. Eating humble pie is always on the diet.

It's funny that human shit disposal is such a major problem, all over the impoverished world. Two billion people suffer the consequences of not having their 'shit' together. Diseases are spread. In India, peasants like to shit on the rail road tracks. Seems gross...but what would you do in their shoes, and you had to take a dump?

(Answer: Do it on the railroad tracks.)

Imho, the easiest of problems to solve, facing humanity, is to deal with our poo. The technology to deal with it is essentially free.
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#8
Track workers hate that shit.

Really.
"as the pope, i nominate grayman for sainthood.." - stanky
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#9
I can only imagine.
Are they shitting on the tracks in New England?

And what was it like going from Wyoming to Massatwoshits?

That's a fairly radical move. Do you have any ptsd from it?
I once hitch-hiked from Wyoming to Vermont.
It was like changing universes. I'm still all screwed up from it.
Cowboy hats still instill fear in me. They say to me "Son, you're about to get an ass-whooping."

It's funny how expressive hats can be. I like the hat Gilligan wore, on the Island. That hat doesn't want to kick my ass.
(I know it's silly, but some images are so iconic, it's hard to shake the connotations.)

When i saw my first 'ten gallon hat', i thought to myself:
"What if i had a 50 gallon hat?"

Turns out, that's 'wrong-think'.

Speaking of weird stuff on the tracks, i met a girl in college who was hot to trot. I guess i was a sucker for that. But she was kinky. Oddly enough, i'm not very kinky at all.
Anyway, she wanted to 'do it' on the railroad tracks that went past the campus. That's the most uncomfortable bed ever.
Naturally, i had to be on bottom. I must have made a soft bed for her, but it was painful for me.
It was difficult to maintain the proper mood.

Worse, she wanted to wait until the train was coming...which sounds hellish more erotic than it was.
I lived through, and likely left some dna on the tracks.
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#10
crap.

I just dragged this serious thread into the gutter.
Or, my inner slut did it.
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