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How do we reimburse people that we've done wrong to?

In courts of law, presumably, if I steal your car (or in grayman's case, his motorcycle or kayak or airplane or train) and i get caught, i have to pay a price. I would go to jail for awhile. The property would be returned to the owner, damages would be compensated. Pretty straight forward stuff. Doesn't always work that way, but that's beside the point. It's supposed to work that way, and we have an underlying agreement about that. You aren't allowed to cheat and steal. Or kill. Or kidnap; rape; deceive in a way that causes grievous bodily injury, and so forth. It's a common sense agreement that is the cornerstone of a civilized society.

In the case of the U.S., and discussions of reparations to African Americans, for instance, we open a can of worms.
How far back should we go? 
Assuming the money comes from taxes, should it come from families like mine, that as far back as you can trace it, we've been nothing but abolitionists....except when we were also slaves.

And what about native Americans? do we apologize for that?

Here's how I'm seeing reparations happening:
We stop being criminal. 

As per endemic racism, we stop. We stop incarcerating minorities disproportionately, for similar crimes.
We eliminate the bail system that keeps poor people in jail, sometimes for years, awaiting due process.
We arrest landlords when they discriminate unfairly. We put cops in jail when they shoot someone for little or no reason.
We fine banks that are found to make it more difficult for a minority to get a loan; or charge them a higher interest.

In short, we abide by the law. That alone would be some stunning reparations. Simply abiding by the law.

There's a much more immediate reparation we should be discussing.
And that's the runaway slaves seeking asylum at our southern  border.

They are in immediate need, as a consequence of blatant cheating and stealing and murdering.

If we can muster a drop of collective empathy; a smidgen of atonement, which, frankly, i find unlikely, shouldn't it be focused on the most recent abuses, and the most desperate victims of that abuse?

more on this later. 
Okay, sounds like a meaty subject. But I already take issue with your description of those at the border being "runaway slaves" they're actually not. They're economic refugees looking for a better lifestyle. Just as the Sri Lankans and the majority of Africans, black and white, lobbing in here are.

Reparation is a looming clusterfuck here, it's becoming obvious that the one percent Koori population isn't satisfied with having their 'title' restored to a third of the country already. They seem to be indicating that they want the lot and that's not gonna happen. Popcorn time coming I fear.
I stand by the 'runaway slaves' moniker.

Why are they economic refugees, looking for a better life?

They lived in paradise.
We have fancy resorts in these places.

What made it horrible to live there?

Take a wild guess.
Lack of egg nishning and 4wds?
But what's happened to those despots down there that they've allowed so many slaves to escape? Did they bring the chains with them? or are we talking about wage slaves here? If so then I'm afraid that qualifies them as economic refugees.
How about if we just say it's a tie between the injustice done to former slaves and Bill Cosby and call it all good? Smile

Seriously... How about folks stop looking for a goddamned handout for shit they never had to endure?
You can lead 'em to knowledge, but you can't make 'em think.
Would you settle for 'political prisoners making a break for it?"
That in as much as we created the conditions of their imprisonment, it is incumbent upon us to provide refuge?

Other than your own native population, Australia hasn't done a bunch of crazy shit all over the world. You haven't bombed squat. You haven't trained and armed goon squads to do your bidding. We have., especially in the 3 or 4 countries most represented in the border crisis.
It would be handy if that history, up to and including now, was widely understood by Americans.
(07-08-2019, 07:13 PM)stanky Wrote:  How do we reimburse people that we've done wrong to?

All I know is, giving away vast amounts of money in an effort to right past wrongs doesn't work.

Maori have been given billions of dollars, yet Maori crime, poverty and disease rates haven't budged.

The money filters all the way to the top echelon and stops there - the people who need to money see none of it and no improvement in their lives.

Although I'm not a huge fan, positive discrimination seems to be the way forward. We do at least have one example of it working - in South African sports. Legislated insistence on quotas has meant the sports have had to invest in bringing forward coloured players and it's paying dividends.
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.

I wasn't advocating vast sums of handouts as reparations.
Simply abiding by existing laws would be a huge step.
Beyond that, taking in more refuges.
(From crisis of our creation.)

The cost of humanitarian efforts should be weighed against the costs of the opposite.
Trump's obsession with the Wall, for instance...not cheap. Certainly will have no effect on drug flow.
Or the cost of insane levels of incarceration...suppose that funding was diverted into other areas?

Or, the big one:

The price we pay for military interventions...
That's a fair piece of change; a huge effort.
What if something similar had a different intent?
What if the cost of human decency was weighed against the price of cruelty and injustice?

Suddenly, it looks like a bargain.

(hope i don't come off as a liberal.)
We didn't create anything of the kind. This shit was started before our country was a frakkin' country. Now then, they've since been emancipated. If that won't do 'em, too bad.

No fucking handouts!
You can lead 'em to knowledge, but you can't make 'em think.
You channeling Rush Limbaugh, sparky?

We've been the recipients of the hand-outs.
Except their charity is forced, at gun point.

Have you read nothing of U.S. involvement in Central America?
Lots of the info is declassified now.
You're allowed to read it.

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