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Are we on the road to civilization collapse?
#21
Good point, the Poms don't suffer from self flagellation syndrome that's for sure.

Back to the drawing board.
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#22
Off subject perhaps, but seemed like the best place to put this little gem that popped up on my home page.

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-four-desires-driving-all-human-behavior-bertrand-russell-s-magnificent-nobel-prize-acceptance?utm_source=pocket-newtab



Don't have a fucking clue where this road is going, not sure I give a shit anymore. Only sure that I'm getting goddamned well sick and fucking tired of it. Just about had enough. My main takeaway on Russel's 'Four Main Drivers' speech is that more often than not, they motivate humans to be complete dickheads. This is not always the case, but way more often than not, it is. And we can hardly break with our own nature than a frog can grow wings and turn into a goddamned butterfly.



Fuck.
You can lead 'em to knowledge, but you can't make 'em think.
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#23
From your link:

However much you may acquire, you will always wish to acquire more; satiety is a dream which will always elude you.

Nailed. Smart fella, Bertrand Russell. Even Ali once told him he was smarter than he looked.
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
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#24
Makes a lot more sense than bloody Marx.

We are as our natures' dictate, and systems of civilized proximity must accommodate the flaws in our nature's and mitigate them to remain cohesive. Constraining them results in eventual collapse through excesses or rebellion. We need a bit of rope but also the reward for not breaking it, or hanging ourselves with it. Imposing rules doesn't change human nature, reward and punishment in even measure can control it.

I read that piece from Russel when I was quite young and it took some years before I gave up trying to prove him wrong.
Someone took his points and pushed them a little further. There was a line about "people never do anything that they don't want to do, even when they don't know that they want to.... that revolved around the 'desire' point.

What rubbish I thought. But take it deep enough and every thing we decide and action we take is voluntary and chosen from self interest. Harsh assessment but not a mile from correct.

Even the most sarificial act of laying down life for another is done because "there's something in it for us."
The reward may be as seemingly trivial as a momentary flash of self bestowed heroism, or form of status enhancing motivation without the 'hero' even being aware of the motive. Mostly it's done to protect those with DNA connections.

There are instances of complete strangers pulling up at an accident and hauling people out of a burning car, often at great injury to themselves and it seems an act of pure selfless altruism, and by definition it is... what reward did the subconscious offer for the act?
Some people would rather risk all than feel bad that they hadn't.
That's not a denigration of the intent, the opposite. It's the finest 'desire' I can think of to hold, but it is a desire ... technically.
Our sense of what is a reward differs therefore our behaviors differ.

Finding what we're wired to 'desire,' even subsconsciously, is the key to our 'souls'.

sorry, got all philosopharty there.

Anyway, treat it as homework. What do we ever do that goes against our 'desires'. The rewards may differ, and may be hard to find, but they're there.

Onya Bertie,nailed us.
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#25
I figured this was about as good as any thread to place this:

Dutch family found in cellar 'waiting for end of time'
"Just be patient, have a rum shot and a smoke and maybe a toke and enjoy the company." - sparks
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#26
That's a fucking strange story alright. I'm sure there's more to come.
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
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#27
As i suffered through our democrat's debates last night, several stats were tossed out there, regarding various failures of the system.
Taken together, it paints a macabre picture.

Here's a few, in no particular order, and the numbers probably off:

1. Our opiate crisis, which connects to corporate sleeze and greed, and is killing 40,000/year of American o.d.'s.
2. Gun violence (and how it relates to NRA political influence and more corporate greed) ha become the biggest killer of young black men' adding another 40,000 deaths or more.
3. Suicide. That's gotten a huge spike. Forgot the numbers, but it' like #3 now.
4. Income disparity and lack of health care accounts for another huge slice of the death pie.
5. Shitty education, combined with more corporate greed and monopolies in the big ag show; i.e.; fucked-up food and epidemic obesity and diabetes.
6. Dumb wars of aggression and regime change. KaBlam! A mess more dead folk.

On and on it goes....dismantling of unions and safety standards in industry; more unnecessary dead.
Dissolution of female reproductive rights...more dead fuckers.

Add it all up, and the death toll exceeds any of the usual culprits.

Pointless greed has become # 1!
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#28
(1 hour ago)stanky Wrote:  Pointless greed has become # 1!

You must have missed the memo - it always has been.

Check your bible, some of which dates back 4000-odd years.

All the kings were fabulously wealthy and great buddies with the big fella. Solomon had 1000 fucking concubines, and even back in 2000 BC, they had to cost a packet. David? Wealth beyond measure. Noah ended up owning the entire fucking world!

God loves cash.
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
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