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Is the nature of police work attractive to red-neck thugs?
#21
But Savage too wasn't exactly a globally historic figure, small beer. Bernie is better known and he hasn't led anything.

What about the high profile Socialists/Commos through history? Hitler, Castro, Mao, Stalin, Deng, Mugabe etc, all "Heroes of the Revolution" the saviours of the people. All failed the 'good guy' test after a year or three in power.

Despots and arseholes spring from all sides of politics, time flushes our their true natures, or at least exposes their shortcomings in making the big dream work.

The ones whose careers are cut short leave room for only their good intentions to be scrutinised.


... too cynical?
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#22
(06-10-2018, 03:46 AM)Di Wundrin Wrote:  But Savage too wasn't exactly a globally historic figure, small beer.  Bernie is better known and he hasn't led anything.

Ah, but Savage's policies were seen and became the norm throughout the English-speaking world. That nobody else in the world knows it doesn't matter - the true left don't do it for recognition, which is why there are so few of them.

(06-10-2018, 03:46 AM)Di Wundrin Wrote:  What about the high profile Socialists/Commos through history?  Hitler, Castro, Mao, Stalin, Deng, Mugabe etc, all "Heroes of the Revolution"   the saviours of the people.  All failed the 'good guy' test after a year or three in power.

Power corrupts isn't a metaphor, it's an axiom.

The one I'm most gutted about is Mugabe. I still laugh at an essay I wrote in 1980 where I praised the living fuck out of him.

That's one of many calls I made as a young man that turned out to be horribly wrong.

I'd argue Castro doesn't deserve to be in that group.

(06-10-2018, 03:46 AM)Di Wundrin Wrote:  ... too cynical?

No, too realistic. Like I said, it's axiomatic.

Never mind the bad guys, how about the good lefties who did nothing, or worse, did it all wrong? Blair? Justin Trudeau? Shit, the naked desire for power goes all the way down the institution, no matter what side it's on.
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
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#23
Quote:TA:


The one I'm most gutted about is Mugabe. I still laugh at an essay I wrote in 1980 where I praised the living fuck out of him.


That's one of many calls I made as a young man that turned out to be horribly wrong.

That's okay, don't fret about it.  Was a time when I was jealous that America had Obama and we only had idiots.
"Yes we can!"  ... well, no, he couldn't, or wouldn't.
We all get it wrong. Angel


I'd argue Castro doesn't deserve to be in that group.

Point in that, except for the people he had assassinated for plotting the same kind of revolution that he did he was on okay guy.   ... seriously, he was better for Cuba than an American puppet would have been, social well-being wise, health care and such. 

But the only way it worked was because Cuba was so isolated.  If it hadn't been it would have all fallen to shit in no time flat.



(Yesterday, 08:46 PM)Di Wundrin Wrote: Wrote:... too cynical?

No, too realistic. Like I said, it's axiomatic.

Never mind the bad guys, how about the good lefties who did nothing, or worse, did it all wrong? Blair? Justin Trudeau? Shit, the naked desire for power goes all the way down the institution, no matter what side it's on.

Too true! There's no colour or politics in corruption, it encompasses the full range of humanity.
We should look at them without the political filter lenses on,  there's really little ideology involved in power struggles.  It's all about "them."

Obama's biggest sin was the failure to lead, he's a follower, a ditherer, a poser, a 'personality', not a leader. 
Just as hollow in character as Trump but in a more passive way. 
Similar to Turnbull on a smaller scale.  He's a bloody kick the walls disappointment too.

It's all about appearances, not ideology with those types.  I lump Trudeau in that category too.
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#24
(06-10-2018, 07:41 PM)Di Wundrin Wrote:  It's all about appearances, not ideology with those types.  I lump Trudeau in that category too.

Key was another - very popular, but an empty gesture. Seems to be the new nom.
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
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#25
Always was the norm probably,  we just notice it more now due to better surveillance technology.  The idiots say stuff on Twitter whereas in the past nothing about them got out that wasn't filtered by their minders.  
We just didn't 'know' them back then. We swallowed the bullshit that they were somehow smarter than us, a different level of human fitted to 'rule'.  

It's been a bit of a shock all round to find just how flawed these people are as individuals.  

One of the great mysteries that fascinates me most is how these characters are allowed get their heads above the rest of us.   Why do we give them the boost?  
What the hell is it that they have other than massive egos?   ... and 'silver tongues'?  

There is something intangible that they have, but what the hell is it? 
There are people who radiate an aura of power, even though they may be just a local farmer or such. 
There is always some in a population who others respect beyond their worth.  

It says something about us that we spend our lives looking for someone else to lead us to the 'promised land' and hook onto anyone who tells us he knows the road.  
It must have been always thus, think about a lot of the old quotes, "the blind leading the blind" etc.   We really never change do we?  We have fancier toys but we still seem to think on the emotional level much as our caveman ancestors did.  

Do we just keep voting for the best actors?   What's missing from our lives when humans all line up behind some dingbat promising Utopian outcomes from their sole ability to create it from the normal state of chaos??

Is it Santa syndrome or something?

Funny old species aren't we?
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#26
(06-10-2018, 09:21 PM)Di Wundrin Wrote:  Always was the norm probably,  we just notice it more now due to better surveillance technology.  The idiots say stuff on Twitter whereas in the past nothing about them got out that wasn't filtered by their minders.  

That's not entirely right.

Back when politicians' main interaction with public was at town hall meetings where hecklers could make life hell, they were standing up there fairly naked.

I think they were ever bit as crooked, but we got to see the beast underneath.
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
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#27
You only saw them if you went to the town hall to listen to them. A very small percentage of the population ever did, and then only the fiercest opponents would ask questions. People weren't as outspoken in the past.

So even if a poser politician was gutted by hecklers in Woop Woop town hall, only the local rag would have reported it and if the story was picked up by the big papers it was 'spun' according to the way the proprietor wanted it told.

The 'red rags' would report the lies he'd been caught out on. The 'tory rags' would report that the great unwashed commos had heckled their pillar of politics unfairly. ... it's all in the telling. Fake news ain't new.
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#28
(06-11-2018, 01:14 AM)The Atheist Wrote:  Back when politicians' main interaction with public was at town hall meetings where hecklers could make life hell, they were standing up there fairly naked.

I think they were ever bit as crooked, but we got to see the beast underneath.

GOP finds fix for chaotic town halls: Don’t hold them
"lower than a snakes ass in a wagon rut." - sparks
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#29
(06-11-2018, 04:54 AM)Di Wundrin Wrote:  You only saw them if you went to the town hall to listen to them.  A very small percentage of the population ever did, and then only the fiercest opponents would ask questions.

Dunno about Aussie, but over here, the town hall meetings drew huge crowds.

(06-11-2018, 07:27 AM)grayman Wrote:  GOP finds fix for chaotic town halls: Don’t hold them

Ours haven't for years - I'm a little surprised yours still do.
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
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#30
We hear that a local will "take questions" around the little towns occasionally, not sure how many turn up, but who cares about the local members anyway? They're rarely seen or heard from once they get elected. No 'high profile' ones in the area and the head honchos only hit the big regional towns and don't take questions except from the tame press in tow.

It's all done on unsociable media these days.
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