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pretending human evolution
#41
I understand your distaste for derogatory comparisons. [Image: happy0009.gif]
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#42
He (Teh Orange One) got in there because he manipulated the media and rather brilliantly too. Gotta give the pussy grabbing piece of shit that much.
You can lead 'em to knowledge, but the attempt is rarely appreciated.
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#43
(10-03-2017, 10:07 PM)sparks Wrote:  He (Teh Orange One) got in there because he manipulated the media and rather brilliantly too.  Gotta give the pussy grabbing piece of shit that much.

GEEEZUZ Sparky, finally!!   That's what I've been trying to get across since last bloody November!

I wouldn't take your post as an indication that you are ever gonna vote for him,  so why did everyone presume I was a fan??
    
No necessity to link respect for the skill with the character.
Michaelangelo was a an obsessive obnoxious grumpy arsehole but that's no reason to ignore that he was one helluva great all round artist, both sculptor and painter!   imho the best evva.

Donny is a maestro con artist,  and a bloody long sight better at it than the entire ranks of the DNC and GOP combined.
You really can't afford to ignore that degree of skill in a politician.    CoolBig Grin[Image: happy0009.gif]
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#44
I protest!

Methinks you give him credit for a bizarre series of quirks; mostly media whoreishness, that created this craziness.
I doubt the Don expected to win, or even wanted to win. I think he was just having fun, goofing on the 'serious' candidates for the media attention. No one was taking him seriously, at least initially. Even big money was assuming Hilary from the start.
yet, necause Trump was so loose and wild in his display, the media couldn't resist constant attention to him. It was good theater.

To attribute any of this to a brilliant strategy by Trump? I seriously doubt it.
If there is anything brilliant about the man, it's in getting attention. he's been in the news for ages...and not because he has anything in particular to say.

Keep in mind, Kim Kardashian is in the news constantly. What does she stand for? What are her particular skills than enable her amazing wealth?

This shit is wafer-thin, and indicative of a serious sickness with the shallowness of the populace.

I doubt if Trump can tie his own shoes.

It's amusing to see what his ghost writer (Art of he Deal) has to say about the Donald. for one thing, he so regrets writing that book, that he's giving 100% of his royalties to charity.
(Trump, btw, has given 0% of his...and he didn't even have to write anything. Is that skill? Maybe....but not as a writer.)
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#45
Quote: (Trump, btw, has given 0% of his...and he didn't even have to write anything. Is that skill? Maybe....but not as a writer.)

He's not a writer, he excels as a con artist darlin', he gets  other people to write for him. 
Someone who can afford to hire a Mexican gardener isn't called out for his lack of lawn mowing skills is he?

  You keep looking for that kernel of virtue when there is no necessity, nor reason to expect that one exists,  and then express both disappointment and dismay that you don't find it.

The time may be looming when the world needs to decide on what it's true values are, and lay it's life on it's decision.

Does it cut a deal with a murderous arsehole so he won't blow up a billion or two good folk?
Or does it 'charge the cannons' singing Onward Christian Soldiers in the name of higher principles and tell the billion that they're dying for a good cause?

Personally, I'll be placing my hopes on the con man's skill at taking the nutter out by blackmailing and coercing the nutters 'mates' into helping take him down.
By "making them an offer they can't refuse."
 
And if said con artist is preventing mass casualties while he's lining his pockets with the spoils of a cynical and morally ghastly deal, then I can live with that.

And it may be a premature hope, but ...  so far so good.  Despite the ridiculous Tweets, the 'incendiary language', the threats and chicken playing tantrums, the 'crazy' statements alienating all the traditional concepts of diplomacy, despite the obvious and continuous description of Trump's grotesque persona ...  NK has stopped 'testing' nukes.

How the hell did that happen?
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#46
I think you're over romanticizing it.

You could ask "Why did NK start testing nukes?

I think I'd like the guy better if he was some evil master mind.
I don't think he does much of anything.

Plays golf a lot. Watches tv; tweets...

I think it's ludicrous to think he's calling the shots.

He's not the first guy who's made money with money with the aid of ruthlessness.
Other's have made more. The list of billionaires doesn't necessarily reflect brilliance.
It's often a combination of the luck of birth and a willingness to break laws.

To give him credit for avoiding disaster with NK is close to delusional.

I'll grant him this extraordinary talent:
He knows how to gain attention.
He does thrive on that, and we do tend to play along.

I suppose that requires a certain skill.

Has there been another human in history that has garnered this much attention? For doing so little?

I guess you have to admire that. It is superlative.
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#47
(10-04-2017, 06:48 PM)stanky Wrote:  I think you're over romanticizing it.

Not really, it's more of clinging to a desperate hope that there's more to him than meets the eye and ear.

You could ask "Why did NK start testing nukes?

To get attention and the the power that goes with it.  Why does America 'liberate' other countries?

I think I'd like the guy better if he was some evil master mind.

Me too!

I don't think he does much of anything.

He distracts the audience, and misdirects their attention, that's his job in this I think.

Plays golf a lot. Watches tv; tweets...

Well that's pretty normal behaviour in Presidents isn't it?  Other than the volume of Tweeting.  All politicians do social media now, it's part of the patter.

I think it's ludicrous to think he's calling the shots.

I agree that he's closer to being the rifle than to being shooter.

So who is calling the shots??  Not the GOP, they're still looking like stunned mullet trying to figure out what the hell happened.
T-Rex??  He's a very smart lad, the real 'dealer' in the act, but does he want to rule the 'free world'?  Doesn't show signs of that particular obsession.  He seems to be a manager rather than a director.
I don't feel bad that I figured them out yet,  the rest of the world hasn't either.


He's not the first guy who's made money with money with the aid of ruthlessness.
Other's have made more. The list of billionaires doesn't necessarily reflect brilliance.
It's often a combination of the luck of birth and a willingness to break laws.

... and the intelligence to know how use those opportunities, don't write that skill off.  It has to be there.
I dare say I could have been handed 20 billion at birth and still be trying to decide what to do with it.


To give him credit for avoiding disaster with NK  is close to delusional.

We haven't dodged it yet .. but ... the dynamic has changed.  He ramped up the posturing threats to hair-raising.  A degree of 'chicken playing' even more extreme and insane than what JFK pulled.  .. but here's the similarity ..  JFK's scaring the shit out of everybody including me worked.  It relied entirely on the hope that Nkita Kruschev wasn't quite as psychopathic as to put his own status above the lives of millions in a nuclear dust-up.

He wasn't, he was able to back off with 'face' intact as the sane person in the argument.

Do you see a similar scenario here??  
Xi and Putin  had a little plot going to wedge America in a bluff war by using NK as the bad guy.
They, mainly of course Xi, could pretend to be trying to rein him in while really he was enjoying a bit of a snigger at the aggravation it was causing America.

Clinton's (Obama's) only counter play was to parade a few AC carriers up and down the S.China sea and bluster a lot at the UN.   didn't work.  Was never going to. It was just bluff.

So how do you break that set-up??   How do you wipe the smirk of Putin and show Uncle Xi that he may just be not as sure of gaining face as he thought??

NK has always used this OTT bullshit threatening and chest thumping rhetoric, that was why S.K. wasn't worried about him. 
So the only way to get past that infantile stance is to out threaten him. 
It wouldn't make him back off, he's as nuts as anyone gets, but his backers, Putin and Xi are not idiots.

There's no way that they would value NK's annoyance value above the value it holds as China's south east border defence. 

They, Xi, had to take action against NK to settle things down before it all went Pffft.
Has anyone heard from Putin lately??  He's probably a tad pissed and working on some other way of annoying America because I'd bet the house that Xi told him to fuck off and let China handle it's own backyard.

Putin was using Xi and he's not the man who would take that kindly.

So it's all sounding really complicated but actually it could be as simple schoolyard tactics #3.

To break up a coalition in a 3some you need to scare one them enough to break the alliance. 
Xi has blinked.
Like Nikita, he's the sane man in the room.   Trump, or whoever has their hand up his arse seems to have known that.  T-Rex??? ...  and  ... so far ...   the maniac threat to 'blow you all to hell' move seems to have worked.  Not on Kim,  on Xi.

I've always hated JFK for that bullshit he went on with over Cuba buying Russian missiles, but after all these years I'm wondering if there really was a method in the madness?  ... it worked.

The current Chinese island bases is the reverse scenario and maybe someone sane on the American side has allowed that to slide out of the spotlight by concentrating on Dim Kim's nuclear dance instead.
China's happy to let them back off 'with face'.   Now it remains to be seen if America has devised a way to allow China to rein in their mad doberman and retain face so that it doesn't look like a backdown.

Sometimes acting crazy can be advantageous in avoiding declarations that can't be ignored, or 'negotiated.' 

Another odd thing has happened that isn't getting much airtime.   
The hateful bastard did a deal with the Saudis for arms sales,  which btw could only have been set up during the previous administration, it was too far advanced on the details to have only occurred entirely during Trump's term.

He fawned and praised the Saudi's bastardry in Qatar and ignored it in Yemen.
Then he did what previous world leaders should have done long ago.  He bored a few home truths up the UN.
And didn't they hate it?!   And didn't it shake them up? 

You may not have noticed that suddenly the UNHCR, the "bambi" branch of the UN has noticed that Saudi Arabia, one of their fellow members in charge of things 'humanitarian' is murdering and starving thousands in Yemen.  My my, it almost looks like gaaassssp,  genocide! 

Saudi Arabia is protesting loudly that the UN should suggest investigating them.   But at least Trump forced them to blink too.
Honestly how could any of us have taken this flea pit seriously for so long?? 

I don't believe Donny is any pillar of virtue, but I suspect he has a healthy disgust for the hypocrites who pretend to be.

It's quite possible to be bad yourself without condoning it in others.  We're quite a complex species.
It's that 'set a thief to catch a thief' plan.  If you want a leader who knows the depths people will go to, then you need one who's been there.

Wanna fade out with a pushover saint in charge or stay relevant under the 'leadership' of the crazy Donny?

Great choice innit?  Putin would lurrrve you to elect another saint, like Obama. He eats those types for breakfast.  He would have found Hillary hard to digest though,  she was on to him.  And as crooked as him. 

Maybe he thought Donny would be easier to play for the fool??   We sure can see that the American people are only too eager to help him out in that. ...  shit now no one will speak to me for another week. siiiigh 
Angel   Big Grin
 
I'll grant him this extraordinary talent:
He knows how to gain attention.
He does thrive on that, and we do tend to play along.

Nodding.

I suppose that requires a certain skill.

Yep, it sure does if you want more than a 5 minute skit on SNL

Has there been another human in history that has garnered this much attention? For doing so little?

Nero?  Jesus?
... but by 'so little' does that include all the stuff he was 'promising' to do that scared the shit out of half of America but he so far hasn't done?    Whether he hasn't because he never intended to, or because he knew damnned well it would never get passed by even his own 'side' let alone the Demos remains to be seen.   

Doing so little is a blessing isn't it?          


I guess you have to admire that. It is superlative.  

I'm not game to make the call on how much of what Trump's done is clever, lucky, skilled spin, well plotted dealing, mindless indulgence, crass ignorance, contempt, lack of empathy, meglomania, canny politics, brilliant mental accuity, or plain stupidity,  ... hell, I think they're all in there.  It's the ratio of each that eludes me.

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#48
Trumps USA!USA! will never agree to Dim Kim's demands.
You can lead 'em to knowledge, but the attempt is rarely appreciated.
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#49
The USA should never have had to!
The UN should have done it it if had the balls and wasn't even more corrupt than the governments whose representatives staff it.
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#50
Minus the bodacious bluster and horrible ability with language, I struggle to see much difference between Trump and those before him. They all faithfully serve the dictates of their masters, in utterly predictable ways.

I object to the notion of Trump as a fresh new thing. he's the same old crap, in a new, even crappier outfit.
The cult of personality is almost wishful thinking.
We have a vast war machinery. It is the one thing that truly makes America exceptional.

That vast institution (Defense, as we like to call it) has it's own existence and life force. it doesn't just wait around for orders from various bloated figure heads. No president, right or left, has had any power to do anything except yield to the ever growing military part of our democracy. This habit no consumes more than half of our tax dollars, and ensures our debt for eternity.
it can't be questioned. The most sacred cow we have is our unilateral,bi-partisan agreement that we need a strong military. In fact, we all agree it needs to be even stronger. Liberal or conservative, no token leader has the power to challenge that which we hold to be unassailably true.

Ike warned us; he was correct. Our military is an entity unto itself.

The only vaguely appropriate analogy i can come up with is the Roman Catholic Church. it is an entity that has it's own agenda and power that is far removed from it's token mission statement. In fact, who even knows what that is? Spreading the gospel of Christ?

absurd. It's a business, and as such, has taken on a life of it's own, as a business.
We tend to get numb to all this. We have to. Facing reality would be very unpleasant.

We don't even think in terms of any of our big holy missions ever achieving their stated goals.
Ahh! Finally! We've beaten crime! Yeah! Now we can dismantle our police force and close our prisons! Yippee!

Or, at long last, we've finally succeeded in spreading the word of Christ's love to the entire world! rejoice! No more need for the effort; it worked; close down the Vatican; we have completed the holy mission! Yee-haw!

Or, the military?

"At long last, we have finally suceeded in our goal of spreading freedom and democracy, and the righteous virtues that have bestowed this heavy burden of responsibility on us, but, at long last! We have achieved the goals of the mission! Thank God, and god bless our unwavering commitment to the mission of liberating all of the world's down-trodden and misguided souls! We have finally succeeded! At long last, we no longer need these weapons of peace keeping, for our steely reserve has paid off, and the world is finally living in peace! I can't wait to spread the good news to Lockheed Martin and all those other righteous servants of our mission! They can go home now,to their families! They won't have to be burdened any longer with the agony of building more weapons, because their efforts have finally paid off! Rejoice!"


I only make this pathetic expose to illustrate the obvious nature of institutions that take on a life of their own.
And we're so deep into this now, that we never consider questioning it (in the way I illustrated) because that would just be silly and absurd.

So be it.

But can't we at least expose it for what it is? or, do we not only have to go along with it, we are also compelled to sing its praises?

Must I endure rape by my priest, and also have to believe in his holiness?

It seems excessive.

And we're insanely removed from the slightest bit of rational analyses.

talk about a hypnotic state.
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