Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Lee Camp: I Am Boycotting The NFL & You Should Too
#11
(09-19-2017, 07:18 PM)Shiner Wrote:  You protest your employer at your own fucking risk.  The trouble maker can't get a job. Go fucking figure.

(09-19-2017, 07:48 PM)OregonGirl Wrote:  Well put Shiner. You put the uniform on, you represent the "company", live by company rules, or find another job. I have no patience for the inflammatory rhetoric from the "oppressed" that make a gazillion dollars to play a game. Kaepernick and the rest of the alleged protesters should be booted from the NFL in my not so humble opinion.

I'd been meaning to get into this a bit deeper, and now I have time, I will.

I think your stance is wrong, and actually offensive. Offensive to those of us to whom protest is a sacred rite, that is.

In Kaepernick's case, we had a very similar situation way back in the 20th century, when al All Black (i.e. a member of the greatest sporting team the world has ever known, with stats to prove it) wanted to wear a "Quite la Pacifique" headgear when he played France.

The rugby union was horrified and no way was he going to be allowed to protest while being paid to play a game of rugby. Luckily for Josh Kronfeld, roughly 99.999% of NZ agreed with him that the filthy Frogs should take their nukes and test them in Paris, not the South Pacific, so he was allowed to wear it, because the NZRU understands the bottom line.

In Kaepernick's case, it did no financial harm to the employer - and from what I read of the stats, may well have made money for both the NFL and his team - and the reaction to his protest has been a disaster for him. How is it harmful or bad in any way for a bloke to use his position to identify a problem and speak out about it? How is it harmful to anyone to not clutch your pathetic heart during a National Anthem?

It isn't.

The reaction is racist, pure & simple. If a white bloke took the same stance in support of a popular subject - let's say campus sexual abuse - he would be lauded and a fucking hero.

Kaepernick's protest didn't interfere with anything but his own career, and I'd rate it similar to Ali during Vietnam he's standing up for a belief. It disgusts me that he's ruined his career by it.

And when did the size of someone's bank balance has diddly squat to so with their right to speak up? Are only the poor allowed to protest these days?

Someone should tell James Cromwell.
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
Reply
#12
Without Di in the debate, it doesn't seem fair.

(I can't risk pissing off the new member.)

Even if I agree with T.A.

bigly
Reply
#13
(09-20-2017, 02:29 PM)The Atheist Wrote:  
(09-19-2017, 07:18 PM)Shiner Wrote:  You protest your employer at your own fucking risk.  The trouble maker can't get a job. Go fucking figure.

(09-19-2017, 07:48 PM)OregonGirl Wrote:  Well put Shiner. You put the uniform on, you represent the "company", live by company rules, or find another job. I have no patience for the inflammatory rhetoric from the "oppressed" that make a gazillion dollars to play a game. Kaepernick and the rest of the alleged protesters should be booted from the NFL in my not so humble opinion.

I'd been meaning to get into this a bit deeper, and now I have time, I will.

I think your stance is wrong, and actually offensive. Offensive to those of us to whom protest is a sacred rite, that is.

In Kaepernick's case, we had a very similar situation way back in the 20th century, when al All Black (i.e. a member of the greatest sporting team the world has ever known, with stats to prove it) wanted to wear a "Quite la Pacifique" headgear when he played France.

The rugby union was horrified and no way was he going to be allowed to protest while being paid to play a game of rugby. Luckily for Josh Kronfeld, roughly 99.999% of NZ agreed with him that the filthy Frogs should take their nukes and test them in Paris, not the South Pacific, so he was allowed to wear it, because the NZRU understands the bottom line.

In Kaepernick's case, it did no financial harm to the employer - and from what I read of the stats, may well have made money for both the NFL and his team - and the reaction to his protest has been a disaster for him.  How is it harmful to anyone to not clutch your pathetic heart during a National Anthem?

It isn't.

The reaction is racist, pure & simple. If a white bloke took the same stance in support of a popular subject - let's say campus sexual abuse - he would be lauded and a fucking hero.

And when did the size of someone's bank balance has diddly squat to so with their right to speak up? Are only the poor allowed to protest these days?

Someone should tell James Cromwell.

He was a contracted employee of a private enterprise.  As an NFL player he has exactly zero rights regarding his capacity to make political statements and gestures whilst representing his employer.  Protest as a sacred right? That's something you'd do on your own time, right?

All Blacks, especially back then, were more like volunteers than professional sportsmen. 

NFL players don't represent their home town/state/nation. They're professional performers who are contracted to STFU. IMO they aren't even sportsmen.  They're just paid performers with no loyalty to anything.

I've not once said I had a problem with Kaepernick's protest.  I've merely pointed out the futility of both what he did, and the current reaction to something that didn't happen.

Not sure what you're reading, but the current gossip is that people are switching off and it is being proposed that it might be down to Kaepernicks 'treatment' by the NFL.   Kaepernick made money from it. His jersey sales went up for a while, so I guess the club and NFL made something out of it at some stage. 

My point is that Kaepernick defied his contractual obligations. He didn't protest in his own time. He used his position to promote divisive politics, and has no right to do what he did. None. Zero. That's life. 

Quote:Kaepernick's protest didn't interfere with anything but his own career, and I'd rate it similar to Ali during Vietnam he's standing up for a belief. It disgusts me that he's ruined his career by it.

I'll say it again.  The NFL is a private enterprise.  Kaepernick has no more 'rights' than you or I do to be paid huge money to thumb his nose at his contractual obligations.  I get that you want him to be a hero. That's great, but you're in the wrong 'sport'.  There are no heroes in the NFL.  (John Wayne was an actor too)

 To me he's a spoiled little upstart who saw the writing om the wall and had a tantrum.


Quote:How is it harmful or bad in any way for a bloke to use his position to identify a problem and speak out about it?

He has no job now?  I'm still harping on this because I see it going the same way as the nazi bullshit.  You are not reading what I'm writing.  Where the fuck is the racism in this? Dumb cunt made stupid moves in defiance of his squillion dollar contract. Dumb cunt is now unemployed. 

This blinkered social grandstanding has become sickening. (Not talking about Kaepernick any more.)
"Nobody should pin their hopes on a miracle": Vladimir Putin
Reply
#14
Hundreds of people sacked for failing to meet contractual obligations in favour of exercising their right to protest. Note; this did not happen to Colin Kaepernick. All that happened to him was a (non) reaction to his repeated public displays of a willingness to rebel against his employers. He's an investment risk, just like all the people who took a day off below.

Quote: Dozens of protesters across the country were fired from their jobs after skipping work to take part in last week's "Day Without Immigrants" demonstration.

Restaurants and day cares were among the businesses in states like Florida, Tennessee, Oklahoma and New York where bosses fired workers after they didn't show up for work in order to protest.

In Nolensville, Tennessee, nearly 20 employees at Bradley Coatings, Incorporated — a commercial painting company — were laid off after participating in the nationwide strike on Thursday, NBC4 reported.

The company's attorney, Robert Peal, said in a statement obtained by the news station that all employees were told they risked termination if they skipped work on Thursday, but 18 did so anyway.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/employees-across-u-s-fired-after-joining-day-without-immigrants-n722991
"Nobody should pin their hopes on a miracle": Vladimir Putin
Reply
#15
(09-20-2017, 05:42 PM)Shiner Wrote:  He was a contracted employee of a private enterprise.  As an NFL player he has exactly zero rights regarding his capacity to make political statements and gestures whilst representing his employer.  Protest as a sacred right? That's something you'd do on your own time, right?

As far as I'm concerned, if he isn't training or playing, it is his time. Unless his contract specifically includes his conduct during the anthem being played, I'd say it is his time.

(09-20-2017, 05:42 PM)Shiner Wrote:  All Blacks, especially back then, were more like volunteers than professional sportsmen. 

Nope, it was during the full-time pro era.

(09-20-2017, 05:42 PM)Shiner Wrote:  NFL players don't represent their home town/state/nation. They're professional performers who are contracted to STFU. IMO they aren't even sportsmen.  They're just paid performers with no loyalty to anything.

Which goes straight back to my point about James Cromwell.

(09-20-2017, 05:42 PM)Shiner Wrote:  [quote='Shiner' pid='37733' dateline='1505954548']He has no job now?  I'm still harping on this because I see it going the same way as the nazi bullshit.  You are not reading what I'm writing.  Where the fuck is the racism in this? Dumb cunt made stupid moves in defiance of his squillion dollar contract. Dumb cunt is now unemployed. 

This blinkered social grandstanding has become sickening. (Not talking about Kaepernick any more.)

Well, we'll just have to disagree on this one. The root cause of his protest and the reaction is racism. I explained where the racism is - it wouldn't have happened to a white bloke protesting a problem that is popular for white blokes to support.
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
Reply
#16
(09-20-2017, 07:39 PM)The Atheist Wrote:  Well, we'll just have to disagree on this one. The root cause of his protest and the reaction is racism. I explained where the racism is - it wouldn't have happened to a white bloke protesting a problem that is popular for white blokes to support.

When the anthem is played before a game, players are in uniform and employed under contract. It is not their own time. They're at work. Work is a stage show, to entertain the masses, not a soap box for political aspirations. They have the right to sit or kneel too. A bunch of others have done. They still have jobs.

It has not been established that Kaepernick's lack of employment as a starting quarterback is a result of his anthem protesting. The dickhead who made the OP video is calling for a boycott based on straw.

I agree that we don't agree. I don't even agree with myself. I'm just explaining the facts. This whole thing is straw. If Disneyland sacked employees for staging a BLM protest during work hours, would anyone have an issue with it? And again, that didn't happen here. CK made informed decisions. Good luck to him in his future as a social justice campaigner.

Again. It wasn't one act that cost him his career. It was the body of work. (in my opinion)

Was it racism that caused him to stick his finger up to his employers with the stupid headphone stunt? No, it was cash.

Or possibly his own act of racism? Or racial defiance? Who knows? What we do know is that it was a stunt. A self defeatist one at that. Sponsors to the NFL are Gods, and he knew it. He played that one for all it was worth, even retweeting a pic of it months later as a smart-ass retort to another behaviour infringement.

Was it racism that caused him to abuse opponents? No, that was his sense of entitlement.

Was it racism that caused him to fail to meet the performance criteria in his contract?  Possibly. If his focus was on social justice, then he probably shouldn't have signed that contract in 2014.

He's a free agent. Had talks with the Seahawks just before season start a few weeks ago. I don't believe Kaepernick's lack of employment is solely the fault of the NFL. At least one team interviewed him. As a backup. Definitely some prima dona issues there.
"Nobody should pin their hopes on a miracle": Vladimir Putin
Reply
#17
Oh crap.

Do I need to study-up on the details of this?
Was this pissed-off darky football player of questionable skill level, actually contractually obligated to stand for the anthem?

If he did violate his contract, then I have little point to make.

Otherwise, i object to the idea of 'social grandstanding' when it only applies to one side of the grandstand, depending on one's proclivities.

It frustrates me to try to tip-toe over this issue again...

In the history of the U.S., and the world, the people that had the nerve to protest the worst movements in human history, such as genocidal racism, even if they might have been impolite about it, need to be evaluated against the background of reality....and not some new version of a sick reverse political correctness.

I've heard all the nonsense.
There's no racism in America since we freed the slaves.
We all have a fair shake now.

I hear this a lot from white people that find the facts uncomfortable.

I'd be glad to provide the details.

Truth is, after slaves were freed, we worked a loophole in the 13th amendment wherein criminals weren't privy to human rights....ans freed slaves began to be arrested for the most petty of crimes. Once incarcerated, they not only lost their rights to vote, they could be used for a new type of slave labor. And they were.

Jump ahead to the present.
The U.S. has slightly less than 5% of the global population and 25% of the globes incarcerated people.
(Land of the free)

Our prison population is predictably dark skinned. This has been a result of strategic politics, which have since been exposed for the public record. When the C.I.A. unleashed vast amounts of crack into the inner cities of the U.S., and imposed fines on that drug that initially were treated as 100 times worse than the coke violations of the other form, and as the stats show, the likelihood of young black men being busted for petty drug crimes exceeded the white busts four fold, suddenly our prison population soared.

is racism involved?

To even ask that question is absurd.

the rest of the details are available.
Our prisons are full of dark skinned people of low income.
And now we are allowed to make them work for absurdly low wages.

Why does America (land of the free) incarcerate so many of its citizens, compared to the world?
And why are those imprisoned people so likely to be non-white?

because the darkies are pre-disposed to crime? Drug use? rape?

Well, no.
Turns out whitey (%-wise) is more inclined to rape and illegal drug use.
It just isn't reflected in the criminal justice system.

White men rape black women, same as before abolition.
the opposite is what we're inclined to believe.

Is racism a problem in the U.S.? Or is it a matter of whiny little shits on welfare?

In Hitler's Germany, were the crimes of the anti-Nazis as significant as the Nazis?
How about today, in the U.S.?

Is it really the anti- fascist violence we need to be concerned with?
Is it really some spoiled football player that threatens our free speech?

This argument is ridiculous.

While we debate the ugly snowflake threat of the uber PC violent possibility, the exact opposite is running roughshod thru this nation.

There is no debate here; no protests here; concerning all the recent shootings by black cops on un-armed white civilians.

This ain't Australia.
I live here; I've seen it, up close and personal.

This ain't about spoiled snowflakes crying in public...this is about a degree of fascist up-rising that should be of concern to the world.

Pity is, we choose to see that which appeals to us. And worse, the dominant media culture tends to reinforce those emotions.

It's Willy Horton, on steroids.
Reply
#18
Is racism a myth in the U.S.?

Well, as a kid, I well recall businesses (Such as restaurants, hotels and the like) that wouldn't serve blacks.
Even in Lexington, Ky, a border state in the Civil War, and a relatively liberal city, Muhammed Ali was not allowed to stay in the same hotel as his entourage of white handlers.
Basketball teams of mixed race had to stay in separate lodgings.

We've only got past this stuff yesterday.Kentucky loves its college basketball team; the Wildcats. Mostly black kids, they bring a lot of money to the state, and they are allowed to stay in the same lodgings as the white kids.

In my little town, to this day, the blacks are very unlikely to be seen in any restaurant in town...or even the hardware store.
segregation is the rule here, and this area isn't even especially hateful. No lynchings.

Though, our new National Holiday, Martin Luther King day, is openly referred to as Nigger Day.

Is racism a thing of the past in America?

What a laughable question.
Reply
#19
Oh man. I give up. You guys do not read, you interpret.
"Nobody should pin their hopes on a miracle": Vladimir Putin
Reply
#20
I try to read.

But I'm stupid.

Hence, interpreting kicks in.

Perhaps you could give it one more try?

So far, I'm too stupid to find the offense in his gesture.
And you somehow have.

I sense that it has nothing to do with race?

Mostly, I confess, I find it fairly irrelevant.

Maybe if it was about Kim Kardashian's tits?

Do i need to love football to understand this?

(You know how gay i think football is.)
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 5 Guest(s)