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Confirmation: We're Fucked!
Garbage is a relatively new invention. Unless you count the heaps of shells that early people made if they lived near a good source of shellfish.

It's high time we figured out a way to phase out the very concept of garbage. Actually, we have figured it out. What we haven't figured out is howto make it un-profitable for corporations to avoid what should be their responsibility.

Does that sound too "Greenie"?

(I see it more as common sense.)

A few companies have embraced the idea, and they are doing well.
Imagine if it was illegal to sell products that had no end plan?

It's not exactly a radical idea.
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(02-09-2018, 01:17 AM)Di Wundrin Wrote:  "The China Syndrome" has just gotten real here today coincidentally.

Prepare for it to be bigger and bigger news. Cities in USA & UK are in deep shit. As you say, Aussie has plenty of land, but I bet it's a lot harder to start a new landfill than it was in the '50s.


(02-09-2018, 01:17 AM)Di Wundrin Wrote:  One of the philosopharts that Cuz and I indulge in was on the subject of just what the fuck has happened to the size of garbage bins !?
Not a normal subject that arises often, but really, why are they so BIG!

Bingo!

We had six in the house at one stage and only used one bin. Now, people have locks on their bins so other people can't put rubbish in them. And I'm not kidding - a block of flats I was at last week had locks on several bins. Auckland council halved the size of ours, so rubbish is a big issue right now.

As to blaming the packaging companies, however, you're completely wrong. The consumer demands the pretty packaging, not the other way round. Like TV news, they're catering to the buyers.

There are plenty of plain and non-packaged goods at every marketplace, but nobody buys them.

(02-09-2018, 01:17 AM)Di Wundrin Wrote:  I kid you not but I've kept the packaging that a tiny pair of tweezers came in for years. 
It's easy to lose the tweezers, but not the thumping big slab of plastic coated cardboard with the tiny tweezer shaped coffin in the middle!  That bastard is not going to be lost!  It's huuuuge!  At least 20 times the area of the tweezers.

I have to buy hayfever nasal spray every now and then and I couldn't find the one I wanted. It came in a simple, small bottle.

The reason I couldn't find it was because it had changed to coming into a package the size of a small car.

Is that because the company wanted to increase its manufacturing costs, or because consumers are blind and fucking stupid?

(02-09-2018, 09:21 AM)stanky Wrote:  Imagine if it was illegal to sell products that had no end plan?

It's not exactly a radical idea.

Sure isn't - I've seen it mooted many times, and it's a simple answer.

Nobody with the balls to do it, unfortunately.
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
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I'm not sure the packaging was initially consumer driven TA. It's become the expected now, but the original reason for that plastic coffin on cardboard was to reduce the incidence of shoplifting. At least that was the reason I read about when the first whinging started. They refer to it as 'tamper proofing', sounds better than we're making pencil sharpeners too big to fit in a pocket.

I've heard too many complaining about having to cut gadgets out of their tombs with garden shears to believe that the people whinging wanted the item to come in a bomb proof box.

I remember an old bloke spitting fire over buying new secateurs and having to borrow his neighbour's to cut the package that the new one was in. He reckoned it must have been made of kevlar as his scissors wouldn't cut it.

I think I've had a few of those packets. [Image: yellow-laughing-smiley-emoticon.gif]
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Could plant-based plastics help tackle waste pollution?

Quote:We have grown to rely on plastic - it's hardwearing and versatile and much of our modern economy depends on it. And for many current uses there are simply no commercially viable biodegradable alternatives.
...
One company trying to change this is Biome Bioplastics, which has developed a fully compostable and recyclable cup using natural materials such as potato starch, corn starch, and cellulose, the main constituent of plant cell walls. Most traditional plastics are made from oil.
"'I'll go sharpen the stillettos bad boy." - Di Wundrin 
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(02-10-2018, 04:33 AM)Di Wundrin Wrote:  I remember an old bloke spitting fire over buying new secateurs and having to borrow his neighbour's to cut the package that the new one was in.  He reckoned it must have been made of kevlar as his scissors wouldn't cut it.

I think I've had a few of those packets. [Image: yellow-laughing-smiley-emoticon.gif]

Me too. Best of all was a couple of weeks ago when I bought a new reel of weedeater cord. The cunts hadn't manufactured it with the end sticking out and you had cut through that same plastic to get to it. I had to use my wire-cutters to get at the fucking cord!

That is bullshit.

Me & Mrs A have been having a laugh about the whole garbage business. One of my customers is responsible for collecting about 99% of used plastic milk bottles, all of which had been being sent to China. because we can't dispose of them here.

The laugh is of course that up until the 1970s NZ had exactly zero waste with milk bottles because they were all made of glass. We had the perfect, 100% green system and changed to an absurd plan that creates hundreds of millions of empty plastic bottles a year.

Progress!
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
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Further confirmation we're fucked:

Newspapers needing to display the reading time of articles alongside the headline.
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
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Glass is class! I didn't realize just how much it had been phased out until I decided to get crafty with decorating a fancy shaped bottle with that polymer clay stuff. I couldn't bloody find one! I ended up raiding the recycling bin and liberating one of the neighbours' wine bottles which is too damned big anyway. The only glass bottles of reasonable size I have are a couple of sauce bottles so the experiment will have to wait until they get emptied.

I'd be okay with glass making a comeback, but the way things are going we probably don't have any glass manufacturers left and would have to import it from bloody China, like everything else.

I only noticed that milk cartons had all but vanished in favour of plastic a few months ago. I don't use milk much so didn't pay it any attention.

This is the kind of thing I'd prefer the politicians who are elected on their enviro pixie standards to be working on rather than gibbering jargon about climate change without actually doing a bloody tangible thing.
Plastic is tangible. Pass a few laws banning the production of that for starters!

They fart about and produce some lame law about banning single use grocery bags as though they've just single handedly saved the friggin' planet. But it's what's in the bags that is causing the problems on land, the bags are mainly causing the problems in the oceans. Only half the problem fellas, get back to doing what the voters were led to believe you were going to do... clean the joint up.

I'd love to see the figures on plastics manu'fuck'turers donations to the various Parties.
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(02-10-2018, 02:13 PM)Di Wundrin Wrote:  I'd love to see the figures on plastics manu'fuck'turers donations to the various Parties.

Once you get back through the tangle, you'll find it's driven by oil companies - with people turning to green energy all the oil has to go somewhere, and plastics are the goal.

Did I show you this?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/dec/26/worlds-largest-plastics-plant-rings-alarm-bells-on-texas-coast
Love is... that one person whose freshly-warm toilet seat you don't find disgusting.
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I did see that but must have nodded off and shut down before i read it.  

I can see the benefit of  some, even many plastic products .. but stuffed if I can grow to love those tiny little balls of it, or bottles for milk when we finally got used to the cartons,  or layering films of it on everything .. grumble growl ...

Gimme freezer bags and Chinese take-away containers and I can probably live without the rest of the stuff that goes in the garbage.  

I'm not turning green or anything it's just a matter of trading off drawbacks for benefits.
Coal has some drawbacks, but it's also still the most efficient source of base load power and most of the world will need it for some time to come.   Oil ? well same kind of balance.
But plastic?  That's being produced just because they can.  Instead of explaining what it's good for, as with coal, they have no explanation at all.  It's not fulfilling a need,  it's creating imaginary needs to excuse it's production and that's about where I make a stand on the 'green' scale.  
Massive production of plastic neither weighs up nor adds up on the benefit/drawback scale.

But that was clever to throw in the reference to the Saudis, that one lights my fuse every time. Angry


(I'm recycling the Chowie containers as pots for plants in the retaining wall.  They're the perfect size to slide into the slots, become invisible when filled with dirt, and the plants have something to grow into instead of getting washed out in a good rain. They also stop the dirt from washing out from behind the wall rails while still letting it drain.
Poifick!

They're so good for the purpose it's actually hard to find them when hosing the wall garden, they just blend into the plant and dirt colours.  Can't buy pots which can do that.
 
I wait until I hear the neighbour using his toy drill and dash over to his garage with a stack of them and he knocks the drain holes into 'em.  He's happy, they're using them too now.  ... once we fill the wall up they can ban them.  Big Grin
 I notice they use boxes in the US, they do in some Chowies here too, dunno why the plastic ones are so ubiquitous here.)
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As a kid,we had the milkman. he delivered the goods in reusable glass bottles. There was a box on the stoop they went in.
It was a radically 'green idea' in retrospect.

But at the time, it seemed more like common sense.

It enabled most families to not need a car...among other things.

Those old milk bottles were really thick. I wonder how many times they were able to be re-used? A bunch is my guess.

Cool thing was, at the time, none of it was seen as radical greenie shit. It wasn't a 'statement;.
It was simply a sane way of doing things.

The options began to appear later.
many of them only solved the problem of putting the milkman out of business and selling disposable containers.

And forcing the need for a car. And the fuel.

Sanity isn't profitable. Peace isn't profitable. Curing disease isn't profitable.

This is problematic.

Somehow, we've convinced ourselves that it's just the way it is, and there is nothing we can do about it.
Unless you want Mao or Stalin.

Spewing endless micro bits of plastic into the oceans (that will persist for ages) is simply the cost of freedom.

We've lost half of the world's wildlife in a mere 40 years.
It's the cost of freedom.

Damn expensive, freedom.
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